Fernando Torres Vs. Didier Drogba: Some Thoughts And Analysis
There's been a lot of fighting debate over the merits of Fernando Torres and Didier Drogba recently. Torres has been the subject of some bitter complaints over his inability to score goals, and despite him registering nine assists in all competitions this season he hasn't scored enough goals to get the fans on his side. The job of a centre forward, or so it is said, is to score goals.
I'm going to contest that assertion. In my opinion, the job of a football player is to help his team win, and although that might be the 10,000 foot view, it have help us to actually look at productivity if we frame our questions properly. In general, I don't think too many would disagree with me if I say that the job of a centre forward is to help his team score as many goals as possible. This, incidentally, is one of the key elements Didier Drogba brings to the team - his ability to work with Daniel Sturridge is hugely important, and Sturridge is still yet to score a league goal when Torres starts.
If we look at Chelsea's goals scored output, we get this. With Drogba, they've scored 21 goals in 11 matches. With Torres, it's 18 in 11. Anelka's started one match, with two goals scored there, and Andre Villas-Boas has plumped for a two-man strike partnership once, against Norwich, a game which featured three goals. Based on the raw data and discarding the two matches where the Blues didn't play one of the two big names as a lone central forward, having Drogba start is worth almost 0.3 goals per game - or more ten goals over the course of a season.
That number is big. Using our standard goal differential to points conversion of 0.645, fielding Drogba instead of Torres for a full season is worth almost seven points. It's also unfair in two ways. Playing time has been close to a 50/50 split, with Drogba playing more when he's available, and we're only about two-thirds of the way through our season. Using Drogba in all of the matches Torres has started gives us about two points more than our current total - enough to make a difference as we try to close down Tottenham Hotspur, but not a huge one.
The second way it's unfair to Torres is even more problematic. The data we have is inherently flawed. We don't know the overall quality of the defences both strikers have faced, and there might be an unfair home/away distribution in there as well, which could be worth a full 0.5 goal swing with a particularly unfortunate distribution. We've encountered this problem previously, of course, and it's not that difficult to solve - we generate expected goals by looking at the opposition's defence compared to Chelsea's attack, modify by the relative potency of our attack* and then apply home advantage. We call this figure expected goals (xG).
*Despite many complaints this year, the offence is still 30% above Premier League average.
At this point, we can then look at individual matches and see if we over or underperformed. Here's a chart showing goals (G) minus xG for the 2011/12 season so far:

Figure 1: G-xG by game, 2011/12 season.
As you can see, the Manchester United match broke an eight game slump in which the attack has underperformed, starting from the 1-1 draw with Wigan Athletic at the DW Stadium. Obviously, much of that streak has occured while Didier Drogba's been away at the Africa Cup of Nations. What happens when we take a look at who started at centre forward in each match on top of this information?

Figure 2: G-xG by game and starting centre forward, 2011/12 season.
This is a mess. There's no obvious pattern here. Drogba's been involved in both our worst game of the season by this metric (the 1-0 loss to Queens Park Rangers at Loftus Road) and the best (5-1 vs. Bolton Wanderers at the Reebok), but this really does not show a major difference between what the attack has done in terms of Drogba starts vs. Torres ones. On average, Chelsea perform score 0.07 goals less with Torres starting than with Drogba, a number that's small enough that had The Miss at Old Trafford not occured, the two would be dead even.
If we go back to our points analysis above, the figure drops by a silly degree - if we start Drogba in place of everyone's favourite Spanish punching bag , we get 0.77 goals, which is equivalent to almost exactly half a point. That's not something to get worked up over, especially when a) we regress the numbers like we should and b) we remember that Drogba has actually been directly involved (three goals, one assist) in fewer goals than his blonde counterpart (two, three).
So, there are the facts for the season so far. It's not conclusive, but it's strong indication that the fight between Team Torres and Team Drogba is, ultimately, much ado about nothing. The Blues might have a problem at centre forward - this analysis certainly doesn't say anything about how good both players are, but it appears that there's not a whole lot to separate the two supposed big guns.
NB: It make strike some readers as unfair that I used only league games in this analysis, which leaves, for example, Chelsea's 3-0 win against Valencia out of the picture. It's much easier to run this sort of test on the Premier League, where all the teams are playing each other many times, than it is to do it on, say, the FA Cup or UEFA Champions League Group E. A quick scan of the data seems to slightly favour Torres in the games missing, at any rate, but it's probably not enough to make a difference.
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Thank you for analysing this so thoroughly!
I’ve been convinced that Drogba and Torres have been roughly equal this season. Neither has really been good enough, let’s face it, but the difference is so small that it has to fall in the margin of error of the available data. If, for instance, the entire front six hadn’t laid a giant egg against Swansea, it would have had a substantial effect on the outcome of your analysis. All in all, I don’t think Drogba is going to be a magic cure for our problems when he comes back, unless he gets a huge boost from his form at the ACN. I hope he does, but there’s no real way of knowing whether that form will translate to PL form, whether due to quality of opposition, or just the transition from cup to league format.
To put all that more succinctly, football analysis is a form of voodoo. : P
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
hmm
1) I dont think including other games would have made much difference coz even torres had some gud performances(eg:- genk)
2) There is no problem if we have two really good,potent strikers. Actually, it is a very sweet problem to have n I would love to have it as well. Look, we have to go according to the situation of match and decide who has to play. For example, against Manu I would have started torres(if drogba was available) coz of his past performances against Manu and his recent performances against all teams in general(excluding match against swansea). But when we had 3 goal lead, that is the time when I would send drogs in
3) We must put faith in torres coz he IS our future.Spend 50m from your pocket on anything and u would know how hard it is to get rid of it :P . Anyways we took a decision a good one(IMO,even though we overpaid) and we must stand by it. And we must use both of them effectively to secure top 4 place.I very much think drogba is essential to us this season to get thru this crisis(some people suggested to sell him in january which would have been a mistake) and we must use him effectively and in the process let torres build his luck back.
4) One last point, IMO torres is playing very well and working his socks off.Look at bigger picture(in interest of club and player) and you will know why getting him to score goals is very important.
" There is no problem if we have two really good,potent strikers"
The problem we have is that we don’t have any!As for Torres working his socks off, a league 2 striker will likely work his socks off, doesn’t make him a £50 million pound player!I’m glad that Torres is putting in the effort but with the money he is paid that is the very least you should expect from him!
by conorjmartin on Feb 6, 2012 11:20 PM GMT up reply actions
His price aside
as hard as he may work his record is not one of a PL striker especially one who is supposed to be competing in the CL…
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 6, 2012 11:50 PM GMT up reply actions
I'd play Drogba over Torres in every single match untill the end of the season
Torres has no confidence in front of goal. He is gone, mentally. Why would you waste your time with a striker who has hit rock bottom mentally? We don’t have the luxury to play a striker who is scared of shooting in front of goal.
Drogba is confident, big, strong. He will fight defenders, hold them off. Torres doesn’t. Drogba always shines in the important games as well, where Torres is always invisible. Look at the game against Valencia for example. I haven’t seen Torres play like that for over 2 years. If Torres had started that game I think we wouldn’t even been able to score. Drogba is an absolute monster when fully motivated. I cannot believe people picking Torres over Drogba. Drogba has given us titles and trophies, Torres has only given us embrassement after embrassement.
I just find it absolutely ridiculous that some people keep defending Torres where other players would have been blasted into oblivion if they had similar games. I hate how he is so protected by some of our fans. He hasn’t done ANYTHING for Chelsea. He is the biggest flop in the history of the English game.
I agree with you
However, I’m tired of attacking Torres (FOR NOW). He is now a midfielder as far as I’m concerned. I think everyone should just view him as such. The only central strikers Chelsea have are Drogba and LUKAKU. I wonder how a game with Torres playing behind the main striker would be? Actually, scrap that, at least Mata and Lampard will score…
As for why people like him, he’s like Chelsea’s Captain America (without all the heroics), a poster boy that people want to rally behind…
The Nigerian Perspective!
by Iced O on Feb 6, 2012 8:32 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
But why?
Why like him?! He hasn’t done ANYTHING for us! Players like Drogba and Lampard have given us Titan performances and people forget that shit in matter of weeks. Torres fails week after week and people keep making excuses and acting as if When legends like Drogba, Lampard or Terry play bad they all call for their head. Its disgracefull! If I ever meet “fans” like that in real life, I would punch the teeth right out of their fucking mouth. What has Torres EVER DONE to earn the fact that some of our “fans” defend him even when he plays like a donkey.
The only reason I want Torres to do well is because we paid 50 million quid for him. I have never slammed the guy for no reason. I treat him equally to any other player in the sqaud, but some of our “fans” do not. They keep defending him and masturbating on his goals against weak sides(Genk / Swansea) and keep living in a dream world that SOME DAY… SOME DAY HE MAYBE GO BACK TO HIS BEST.
Torres is a FUCKING DISASTER! The sooner all of us realise that (including the manager) the better. I don’t hate the guy, at all. He seems like a very nice bloke, but the fact remains that he has cost us a fucking fortune and he has NEVER DELIVERED. If I pay 50 million pound on 1 player I expect fucking magic.
Cant edit my posts. *sigh*
Torres fails week after week and people keep making excuses and acting as if he is some sort of Chelsea Legend that is going through a small patch of bad performances.
We're in the present, not the past
Drogba HAS given us titles and trophies, but he is not the same player he once was. Nor is Chelsea the same team that won those titles and trophies. Drogba has been far from brilliant this season as well. He’s been pulling an anti-Torres in a few games where he performs like crap for 89 minutes but pulls a miracle goal out of nowhere in that other minute. I’m not saying this isn’t valuable, because scoring always is of course, but he has also hurt us during those others 89 minutes. Torres has generally been playing well throughout the game and helping the team, but then misses the one good chance he has. It’s hard to pick which one I’d prefer.
I agree with the post, it is basically a wash when it comes to Drogba vs. Torres. It all depends on the competition and style of play that Chelsea is trying to play on any given day.
by AmericanChelseaFans on Feb 6, 2012 8:49 PM GMT up reply actions
We're in the present, not the past
Correct mate. Drogba has been scoring goals lateley where Torres is still learning how to shoot in front of goal and keeps missing sitters. Yep.
Correct, but there is more than scoring.
I’m not trying to start a fight here, just discuss our opinoins. All I’m saying is that I agree with the post that Drogba and Torres are, in essence, equal right now. Equally poor, for Chelsea’s standards. But I don’t think it’s fair to label Torres a disgrace and say he shouldn’t start another game this season when Drogba is playing just as bad THIS season.
If, for example, this was Drogba’s first season at Chelsea, it would be a discussion about who is the bigger disappointment so far this season. Drogba’s past should not weigh into his performance this season. Same with Torres. They are both shells of their former selves right now.
by AmericanChelseaFans on Feb 6, 2012 9:05 PM GMT up reply actions
Drogba’s past should not weigh into his performance this season. Same with Torres. They are both shells of their former selves right now.
Are you serious??? They are both in different places in there lives and careers! Drogba has been Chelsea’s best and most prolific striker in the past few decades, feared by every team in the Premier League!!! He is now almost in the twilight of his career while Torres is in his prime… How could you compare the two?
Mr Trini Papi aka Papi Chulo
I'm confused
To answer your first question: Yes. And I don’t disagree with a single thing you said in your comment. I agree that you can’t compare their careers right now because they are in completely different places, but you CAN compare their performance this season. It doesn’t matter where they are in their careers or why they are playing the way they are (Drogba=old, Torres=broken in 18 different ways), all that matters is how they will perform for Chelsea right now. So taking all other aspects (history, legendary status, type of player in the past) out, I believe Torres and Drogba have been equally poor for Chelsea this season.
by AmericanChelseaFans on Feb 7, 2012 2:11 PM GMT up reply actions
What I hate the most is
That people are defending the biggest flop in the history of the Premier League much more than some of our Chelsea legends. That is disgracefull! Torres hasn’t earned any of that. He has never done anything for Chelsea and I doubt he ever will, by the way he is looking in front of goal.
I never said the same doesn't apply to Torres
I just thought that went without saying.
by AmericanChelseaFans on Feb 6, 2012 9:06 PM GMT up reply actions
Drogba was better for Chelsea in the past, and he's better in the present - and, although marginally and with a SSS, the eye test tells me it's significant enough
But I’m not going to get all impassioned about it. Either isn’t currently Chelsea-quality, except Drogba on his best days. So hopefully that changes.
Not only the present, but the future
seems to be on the minds of many talking about it, as well. Now, Torres may not be the future for Chelsea, as the last year has shown, but it is not unreasonable to think that Drogba isn’t either, given his age and the inability for he and the club to come to terms over the contract. I don’t think that is a detraction on what Drogba has given the club by any means. He is and always will be a Chelsea legend. But that doesn’t mean that people don’t want to prepare for the future, and for some people, the assumption was that the amount invested in Torres meant that the club were really planning on him being the near future (and then they have made investments for the nearish future after that, as well). It isn’t suggesting that Torres has made great achievements for Chelsea… it is a focus on those he might be able to do for the club.
Most people can see that Torres isn’t on progress to be able to do that, at the moment, but that doesn’t keep people from wondering why that is and proposing potential solutions and all that… given that he IS currently a Chelsea player. Aside from the “debate” of who becomes striker for Chelsea, Torres’s fall from form is so drastic that it is one of the bigger mysteries of the game, and so a lot of people can’t help but to try to figure it out and “solve” it. Drogba hasn’t had that type of decline, so naturally, he doesn’t have all that hullaballoo surrounding him (which is probably a good thing). Doesn’t change that he has done great things for Chelsea, even if he is not performing the same now.
Standing up for one player doesn’t always have to mean people are putting down or ignoring the accomplishments of another. I feel like a lot of times, here and everywhere, people seem to interpret it that way. Even so, it’s all just opinions, and we know what they say about those!
I wouldn't go that far
Both of those guys tend to get a little lazy when overworked, and we’re going to start playing twice a week again here pretty soon. Not setting a preferred starter will give opponents two very different styles to prepare for.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 6, 2012 9:10 PM GMT up reply actions
I couldn't disagree more.
We’ve seen how Drogba plays when he’s sick or tired. He may as well not be on the pitch. So nothing but Drogs till May is going to be mediocre at best…until it all falls apart in early April. And why should we waste any opportunity we have to either right the S.S Torres and get him to a level where he’s proven he can compete or can’t, and we know what to do with him in June.
Drogba, as much as I love him, is a shadow of himself. His time here is coming to a close and we need to know if we have a striker for next season (It isn’t Drogba). We didn’t get a winger so we can’t try Sturridge up front so that’s out. So either AVB and Torres can get that fixed before the end of the year, or he needs to be gone. We can’t figure that out without Torres seeing extensive minutes because NOBODY wants to see this shit show carnival of poor play and Torres Watch again next year.
Drogba is old, slower, not as strong and he can’t put one past a keeper 1v1 to save his life (or our CL Final aspirations) even when the keeper is Victor fucking Valdes. He’s not the Messi-ah, he’s not the solution, he’s not the stop gap fix we need. He’s an old legend of the club with a little bit left in the tank. He should be getting Giggs minutes, not RVP minutes.
And why the fuck, honestly, would we all pile on Torres even more than we do? He gets so much feces piled onto him from every football following person in the universe with access to the internet or a microphone. Where the hell is our us against them mentality we had under Jose?
What would David Luiz do?
Your last line
is probably the best line I have seen on this blog. I want to go make a bracelet of that now (that was the thing with those, right? Bracelets?).
On Didier's good days, he's no shadow
He’s a behemoth. Granted, they’re not as frequent as they once were, but I’m betting the ACoN has a better chance of reinvigorating his passion for the game instead of making him tired until April.
On Didier's good days, he's no shadow
He’s a behemoth. Granted, they’re not as frequent as they once were, but I’m betting the ACoN has a better chance of reinvigorating his passion for the game instead of making him tired until April.
I don't think this would really matter.
I think we shouldn’t focus on the strikers, we should focus on the players around them. The type of service they’re getting.
Why not calculate, chances created with the 4-3-3 formation in comparison to the 4-2-3-1 formation.
This, and..
I think we have to find out a way to determine quality chances. As Graham has been able to point out elsewhere, the “chances created” stat sometimes has some flaws to it that make it somewhat unreliable. I mean, it is maybe the only stat available to really do this type of analysis, but it wouldn’t be definitive as a result. Could be interesting, though.
If only there were more stats in this type of football. I always bring up the “how someone performs in certain weather stat” as my example for the level of detail some sports get into, whereas football seems to lack a lot of that. Probably mostly due to the nature of how it is played, but also because I think some folks have gone on the basic available stats for so long, that they hardly consider some other things that are hugely helpful. Like I LOVE the radial passing graphs that are posted here, because those provide more detail that can give clues regarding pass completion and the value players might have added to a game.
This has got be one of your more confusing write-ups, Graham.
I’m still trying to figure out all the statistics and figures but I’ll take your word for it that there’s no difference between them. :P The way I see it, while Torres is very good at dribbling past his man and laying a good pass or cross, he still lacks something very important that Drogba provides, versatility. Drogba offers just as much defensively as he does offensively and if he had played yesterday, I’m sure Chelsea would not have conceded that last goal due to time wasting by Drogba.
Perhaps you could recalculate and look at expected goals conceded to see if Chelsea conceded less when Drogba or Torres where on the field.
Excellent piece BTW eventhough I only understood 1/2 of it. I respect and appreciate the ammount of effort you and Steve put into keeping this blog updated EVERY 12 HOURS. That’s bloody amazing! Well done.
The Nigerian Perspective!
by Iced O on Feb 6, 2012 8:23 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
It is very Soccernomics-like!
Well… better and more in-depth, and about the team I like. But Soccernomics did a tame version of this type of analysis in their chapter regarding why England always loses big tournaments. This stuff is definitely over my head- I am not math person! It may help if I tried to not read it at work while handling questions about CMS’s and crap.
Graham and Stephen should get the Soccernomics authors to have him redo that section of the book to include more stats and graphs!!! The chart with the break-down by game is helpful.
TORTES IS THE SAVIOR OF CHELSEA AND ANYONE WHO DONT THINK SO IS NOT A REAL "FAN"
VIVA EL NIÑO
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 6, 2012 10:29 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
Aww
your picture doesnt show for me. I assume it is something to make everyone laugh.
I think...
I see a little broken image icon next to the “Viva El Nino”. Maybe not?
Yeah I see it too
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 6, 2012 11:03 PM GMT up reply actions
It was a sexy picture
I don’t know what happened. Maybe cuz I was trying to post from my phone. :(
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 7, 2012 12:16 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
The best point of this whole piece is
the job of a football player is to help his team win
It’s very easy to look at Torres’ rate of goal scoring in relation to his transfer fee and disregard him on that evidence. That’s not the point.
There’s so much more to do in a game these days for strikers to do; obviously they want to be scoring goals. However, if a striker pulls a defender away to create space for another midfielder to have time to shoot and score, that’s as equally valuable as the centre forward himself scoring the goal, in terms of the objective of the sport, which is to win.
I don't disagree that a footballers job is to help his team win, but...
each player has a specific position and therefore a specific role to play in the team to help the team win. The strikers primary job is to score. A striker who assists and tracks back (as well as score)is a great player but a striker who doesn’t score is a bad striker.
There’s a reason that players specialize and there are positions in the game. A goal keeper might have really great distribution but if he’s bad at keeping the ball out of the net he’s a bad keeper. If an attacking mid isn’t good at passing but is good and tackling he isn’t fulfilling his job. Strikers are meant to score they should do more than score but scoring is their main job.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 7, 2012 12:03 AM GMT up reply actions
uuhm thanks I guess
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 AM GMT up reply actions
Your example of the goalkeeper is a little redundant; after all the goalkeeper is a player whose attributes and criteria for a good game is totally different to every other position.
What I’m trying to say is that regardless of whether Torres scores or not, if he puts in a good performance by virtue of strong link up play, or good decoy runs, then he is playing well. Same with the attacking midfielder you mention. If he is tackling well and winning the ball for another midfielder to make the ‘creative’ passes, then he hasn’t necessarily had a bad game. It’s unfair to bracket it down into simply “strikers must score”. There’s enough examples to prove that strikers are not meant to score. The best recent example is probably Messi; at occassion his job will be as the focal point to drag away the centre backs to allow Pedro/Sanchez/Villa/Iniesta etc to take the space that is unoccupied. The best example probably ever is the 1998 World Cup – Stephane Guivarc’h didn’t score all tournament, but that wasn’t his point; he was acting as a fulcrum for better players like Zidane to play well
That would be great if there was another player scoring a lot of goals at the moment
but there isn’t.
He’s playing in a position that a goalscorer should be in and he’s not scoring goals. 5 in 33 appearances is awful for a striker. There was always someone you could count on for around 20 goals a season but Drogba doesn’t have that in him anymore and Lampard isn’t scoring as many from midfield anymore either. Like I said there are positions for a reason. Strikers are expected to contribute goals for the team. If you have a striker on the pitch who is unlikely to score, even when given the opportunity, the attacking potential of the entire team goes down. That’s is especially the case when the other players aren’t really prolific goal scorers either. It might work in a cup competition with other goal scorers on the team but it’s not really working for Chelsea.
Comparing Messi to Torres doesn’t help your argument because he scores goals and makes assists. There is no reason why Torres shouldn’t score and assist considering the positions he gets himself in.
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 7, 2012 12:41 PM GMT up reply actions
So.. He's a good footballer but a bad striker?
I can live with that
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 7, 2012 1:53 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
It seems Torres is not only afraid to shoot, he is afraid to even get in the box these days!
He constantly sits out wide so maybe it wouldn’t be such a terrible idea to play him out wide, he showed yesterday that he can definitely cross the ball well! It would also be an opportunity to move Sturridge into the middle, he clearly isn’t afraid to get in the box or shoot, he is in fact far too keen to get in the box and shoot for a winger!I think it would be worth a try since I believe Sturridge through the middle would score consistently in a way that neither Drogba or Torres have done this season.
I've been thinking this a while, and I said it on Sunday but it got lost in the brouhaha
Maybe when Drogba gets back, we should try playing Torres out on the right wing. His best moments of brilliance lately have come when he goes out wide, and when he sets up other players. It’s not just in this last game, but also in a lot of the other games lately, or rather hw ones where he at least played well. It’s not as if Sturridge has really been lighting it up, and maybe Torres could provide really good service for Drogba. Worth a try at least.
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 7, 2012 1:57 AM GMT via mobile reply actions
Just read this again, and I can't stress enough how much iI love stats heavy data analytical soccer insights
Graham and Stephen rock!
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 7, 2012 2:53 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
I don't understand why we won't try Sturridge in that front striker role.
He’s the only striker we have who’s actually been in good form. And that he’s natural role where his selfishness and poor defending won’t hurt us as much in that position as opposed to the winger position he’s being played at.
Meanwhile since Torres seems to prefer assisting to shooting on goal at the moment and he seems to have a good cross in him, why not play Torres on the right?

















