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John Terry stripped of England captaincy...again

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The John Terry/Anton Ferdinand saga was drawn out even further earlier in the week when it was announced that his trial would not begin until after the European championships in July. Largely due to that delay, the FA has today released a statement that John Terry will not be captaining the England squad at this summer's tournament. Terry was reportedly notified by phone of the decision this morning and has yet to comment publically on the matter. Fabio Capello was also reportedly informed of the board's decision this morning by phone.

Frankly this decision may be a good thing for both Terry and Chelsea. You have to assume that he's going to have some additional motivation to show his quality now, he certainly seems to play very well every time his life off the pitch sees a little more turmoil. You'd also have to wonder if this is simply a precursor to his being left off the squad, but that decision rests on both the player and Capello. His having the summer off wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to Chelsea though, so maybe that would be for the best.

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He is also out of Sunday's clash with us

Not a great day for him, all things considered

by Sweet science on Feb 3, 2012 1:47 PM GMT reply actions  

Why is he out?

Injured

Why isn’t it a great day for him? See article….. and because he is now out dor Sunday :)

by Sweet science on Feb 3, 2012 2:07 PM GMT up reply actions  

Now I'm mad.

I thought it was a little out of line for fans to be chanting things about Anton Ferdinand. Now I don’t. Whatever JT said to Ferdinand, he didnt even hear. This is ridiculous.

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 2:08 PM GMT reply actions  

I agree.

Political correctness gone crazy. Typical FA. I don’t condone racism, in fact I believe calling alleged comments like this racist, actually devalues the true meaning of ‘racism’ when it is actually appropriate for the circumstance. In England, perhaps this is a serious as it gets (though I doubt it).

by Chelsea-Steeler on Feb 3, 2012 4:07 PM GMT up reply actions  

This is something I've head from a lot of Americans*

*Forgive the assumption.

You have to remember that it’s a completely different legal structure to the one you’re used to, and that means they’ll have some very different responses to certain situations. From the US point of view, this is a heinous breach of free speech rights. From the English point of view, it isn’t, because racially abusing someone is a crime over there.

Is one way better than the other? That’s obviously not for me to see, but different doesn’t necessarily mean wrong.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 4:22 PM GMT up reply actions  

I'm actually from Australia!

I do see your point. However, if John Terry’s alleged comments are worthy of criminal punishment for ‘racial abuse’, I think the world has gone crazy. He certainly shouldn’t be treated any differently legally, than any other British citizen (which he certainly is). True prejudice and racism from racist people is what is needed to be stamped out.

by Chelsea-Steeler on Feb 3, 2012 4:29 PM GMT up reply actions  

He certainly shouldn’t be treated any differently legally, than any other British citizen

I can guarentee you if I had said that to someone I would be in a lot worse a place than JT. For instance, I would already have stood trial

by Sweet science on Feb 3, 2012 7:51 PM GMT up reply actions  

If I had called someone that

Im pretty sure people where I live wouldn’t be too happy with me. And anyway, as England Captain you are a role model. You know what is expected of you

That isn’t calling someone a ….. ….!

He has to live with the consequenses

by Sweet science on Feb 4, 2012 2:37 AM GMT up reply actions  

I don't understand how serious of a crime this is in England.

I feel as if the punishment here is too severe for the crime. Racism is bad but not bad enough to ruin someone’s career in sports. I understand if a politician or a policeman makes a racist comment how that could ruin their career, but an athlete? Just suspend him for a game or 2 and be done with it. Now this is being dragged out so that we’ll have to hear about it from the commentators during every single match.

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 5:12 PM GMT up reply actions  

Hold up a second

You’re confusing the actual crime and punishment with what the FA is doing. If Terry’s found guilty, he’ll be fined a couple of thousand pounds. That’s the punishment.

The FA would then take further steps (and I’d hope Chelsea would too) to distances themselves from a man convicted of racist abuse. What’s going on right now is that the FA doesn’t want a situation where Terry leads England to the Euros and then is convicted of this a month later.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:16 PM GMT up reply actions  

I didn't follow the Suarez situation very closely

but didn’t that all happen for him quickly? was he tried in court also?

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 5:18 PM GMT up reply actions  

Suarez was not tried for a criminal offence

Evra never reported him to the police, he merely reported him to the FA. Terry’s case was brought to the police by a member of the public who claimed to witness the event.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:20 PM GMT up reply actions  

And because the FA's standard of proof is significantly lower than criminal court

From what I understand of the Suarez verdict, I don’t think it would have held up on a real trial

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:24 PM GMT up reply actions  

Even the reverse can happen

But less chance. Whatever the court will do FA will most probably follow.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 5:29 PM GMT up reply actions  

I dont see why the FA doesnt just do their investigation first

They can get the potential suspension taken care of now and they can then turn their evidence over to the police

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 5:32 PM GMT up reply actions  

What if the court make different decision to them

People will blame FA for not not doing proper investigation. And I think police have told the FA to stop their investigation till the court case but I am not sure about that.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 5:34 PM GMT up reply actions  

The court wouldn't allow them to do that

Their potential ‘decision’ based on whatever they decide counts as ‘evidence’ could quite conceivably make it very difficult to ensure a fair trial.

by deg0ey on Feb 3, 2012 6:56 PM GMT up reply actions  

Hilariously, Suarez was suspended

But no criminal charges were brought against him.

The opposite is happening with Terry. It’s just ridiculous, and a pretty clear-cut case of hypocrisy.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:21 PM GMT up reply actions  

How is this hypocritical?

Someone reported Terry. Nobody reported Suarez. If someone had reported Suarez, the same process would have been playing out now.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:24 PM GMT up reply actions  

The hypocrisy is in the system

It’s poorly configured if one person can be found guilty of charges by the FA, and said charges do not appear in criminal court, while another situation in the same footballing season was brought to criminal court before the FA deems any action is necessary.

Consistency would be for someone in the FA panel that found Suarez guilty to report it to the police. The fact that Terry was pushed into the limelight by ‘a member of the public’ is ludicrous, particularly if we don’t have any actual knowledge of who that person is.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:31 PM GMT up reply actions  

Who else could have witnessed it?

Ferdinand didn’t even hear it. If he doesnt feel like he has to report it to the police then nobody should

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 5:36 PM GMT up reply actions  

AF didn’t know what happened. When he found out he was offended but by that time it had already been reported. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have reported it first if he had known it first.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 5:40 PM GMT up reply actions  

While I see what you are saying

it’s not how it works. It would seem that maybe bystander laws may not exist or may not be quite the same in England as here. Additionally, their investigation was done by a third party that was hearing evidence and then passed a judgement. That may not be admissible as evidence against Suarez in the court of law. Terry’s situation was caught on video, so the court felt there was enough evidence to bring it forth to trial.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:38 PM GMT up reply actions  

I actually think that having a police investigation is better than an FA one

Terry has a significantly lower chance of being convicted in a criminal trial than he does of being found guilty of misconduct by the FA.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:40 PM GMT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with that

It’s just crazy to me that the system is so ass-backwards in these two cases.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:42 PM GMT up reply actions  

It seems reasonable to me

If it gets reported to the police, the police investigate. If it doesn’t, the FA investigates. The statements the FA released in the wake of the Suarez ban made it pretty clear that there was no actual evidence involved, so there’s no reason to think that it would have made it to trial anyway.

Here, there was evidence, as weak as it appears to be from our perspective.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:46 PM GMT up reply actions  

JT should retire from international football

It has been too much for him.
And England should chose a captain for the future. I personally feel Hart should be given the role. He is the undisputed GK and has leadership skills and has no scandal. But Capello is the manager so it would be Gerrard or Lampad (who I think shouldn’t accept it to show support for Terry).

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 2:17 PM GMT reply actions  

Same here

I was a bit surprised he went with the squad to South Africa 2010 and accepted to take the armband later when Capello renamed him captain last year. If he’s proven innocent later, this is only ridiculous. Guilty by accusation. Sad

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Feb 3, 2012 2:45 PM GMT up reply actions  

That's the part that bums me out

Is that this FA-enforced strip of the captaincy could be perceived as an implication of guilt, by many. Lots of folks aren’t smart enough to look past the action of removing him as captain, and see that it’s almost more about the FA protecting its interests as an organization against racism, than it is about Terry being guilty of anything.

Sort of makes me wish that he’d elected to step down himself, so it couldnt get played out like this. But then, he’d be equally damned if he did, as that would be considered an admission of guilt. What a clusterfun. :-/

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:02 PM GMT up reply actions  

I agree too

He shouldn’t have to take all this crap. Even without a trial,they’ve practically said that they don’t support him. Needless to say that this will blow up in their faces if he’s finally proven innocent in the end. Lampard shouldn’t accept it either considering him and Terry are best mates and they’ve backed each other all through. JT showed he was willing to do anything for the team when he went to WC2010 despite the criticism and allegations and he’s always given his all for the country but they never seem to appreciate his efforts for the team. He should retire. AND what’s even more weird is they didn’t bother to ask Fabio Capello for his opinion,even though he’s the fucking coach. INSANE. I get a feeling Barry might get a shot at the captaincy too…or maybe Scott Parker. Capello wants his captains to be experienced…Hart may get the job in the future but not now.

by Avinash Mohan on Feb 3, 2012 3:10 PM GMT up reply actions  

I don't want

Cole, Terry or Lamps playing for England. Waste of time and the rest of the country have constantly under-appreciated their efforts. They were the only players that maintained their form in the WC. Everyone else seemed to flop (especially Rooney). The Chelsea boys maintained their excellent form from the season before.

by Famouscfc on Feb 3, 2012 3:05 PM GMT reply actions  

So sad

Oh well, such is life. Guilty until proven innocent…

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Feb 3, 2012 3:43 PM GMT via mobile reply actions  

Although, I'm sure Terry is guilty

Why would his legal team and Chelsea ask for a delay of the trial? Chesea may even sack Terry if he is proven guilty. The club has historically punished players that bring disrepute to the name of the club…

Terry and his legal team should have just done the trial sooner.

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Feb 3, 2012 3:47 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions  

I think she's saying that he admitted to saying the thing he's accused of saying

If you’re accused saying “blueberry muffin” and your defense is, “No, I said, ‘I didn’t say blueberry muffin” then technically you did say it.

That sentence was confusing.

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 5:24 PM GMT up reply actions  

The allegation is racism, though

That doesn’t implicate him of being racist, it implicates him of saying something stupid.

The burden of proof in a case like this must be nigh impossible. How can you ‘prove’ someone is a racist without reasonable doubt? Plus, Terry seems to have worked just fine alongside Drogba, Cole, Mikel, etc. for most of his footballing career without any mention of incident.

This is just so stupid.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:36 PM GMT up reply actions  

No

The allegation is racist abuse. That’s clearly not the same as ‘John Terry is a racist’

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:41 PM GMT up reply actions  

Well, that makes the burden of proof even more hilariously difficult

Especially when the supposed target of the racial abuse doesn’t have any knowledge of the alleged abuse taking place

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:53 PM GMT up reply actions  

Whether Ferdinand heard it or not is a complete non-issue

This is an admittedly an absurd scenario, but if I racially abuse a blind & deaf person but am caught on camera doing it, does that mean it wasn’t racial abuse?

I don’t think it’s reasonable to say ‘Ferdinand didn’t notice it, so it’s fine’. If someone else noticed it, and it was said, it’s not fine.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:56 PM GMT up reply actions  

Really nothing about this is fine

And as good of players as they’ve been, I really can’t wait until we can wave farewell to JT and Ashley. Love them as players but….come ON guys.

I do think the level this has taken is pretty absurd when compared to say…Fabregas’ comments earlier this year where his defense was basically “i have an Arab girlfriend. I can’t be racist.” and what came out of that.

But if he said it, if he’s…brought shame on the family. Commit Seppuku, step down as Captain and retire. Cause I’ll want him gone.

If he’s proven innocent though, I want a John Terry parade thrown and I want to rub it in everyone’s face in as classless of a manner as possible. So I may not be thinking this through too rationally.

by Culain on Feb 3, 2012 6:00 PM GMT up reply actions  

Haha

I rather like your last couple of paragraphs.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 6:30 PM GMT up reply actions  

Fabregas never said anything though

Although his “defence” of the accusations was still pretty dumb. It seems these days, any time two footballers who just happen to be of different race have an argument, it must be a race thing. Sad, really.

by Al Benson on Feb 4, 2012 1:14 AM GMT up reply actions  

I do hate when folks cry wolf

Takes away from those incidences that may actually involve racist remarks, and those victims of racial abuse.

I didn’t read up much on the Fabregas issue, but I have to admit while his response was dumb, I had wondered the same about his relationship before I heard it. Guess I am capable of being just as ridiculous. It sort of goes under the “but I’m friends with _” category (the one Suarez tried using). Guess that defense comes up more frequently than I had thought.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 4:41 AM GMT up reply actions  

I'm not saying it was okay to say it

I’m simply saying it’s going to be very, very hard to prove that it was said with animosity, disdain, malicious intent, whatever negative connotation you so desire.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 6:01 PM GMT up reply actions  

Unless he really was saying "I didn't call you a..."

It’s hard to imagine that he used that particular phrase without malice.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:04 PM GMT up reply actions  

That's my point

You can’t prove he wasn’t saying ‘I didn’t call you a…’

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 6:09 PM GMT up reply actions  

Unless Anton is lying

which I find less probable, Anton didn’t accuse JT of calling him that therefore JT had no reason to respond “I didn’t call you a…”

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:20 PM GMT up reply actions  

Well considering that Anton hadn't accused JT of racially abusing him,

JT’s defense that he was actually saying he hadn’t called AF what he said doesn’t really hold up. He also said that he spoke to AF about it after the match and everything was supposedly cool but at that point in time AF still had no idea what was allegedly said.

Unless AF is lying about not hearing the alleged insult JT is lying.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 5:36 PM GMT up reply actions  

What if Ferdinand was telling the truth about not hearing the alleged insult, and Terry was telling the truth about talking to Ferdinand after the fixture and clearing the air - because there was, from Ferdinand's perspective, no ill will?

Then everyone just wasted a lot of time and energy on something that was brought to the attention of police by a ‘member of the public’, and Terry was once again stripped of his England captaincy over something that didn’t quite happen the way everyone made it out to.

Again, this is all quite unfortunate for Terry.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:40 PM GMT up reply actions  

If that's the case than he still racially abused AF...

And because AF didn’t know it had happened at that point there was no actual reconciliation. It’s still a crime.

I don’t understand why you think that it’s a problem that “a member of the public” brought this to the attention of the authorities.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 5:45 PM GMT up reply actions  

The intent behind such an allegation is the concern

If Ferdinand doesn’t think he was abused, then I know this might sound crazy, but he probably wasn’t abused. I know, I’m going out on a real limb there.

Abuse implies that there is another who is being abused. Ferdinand’s confusion over the entire situation shows he’s not exactly a victim of Terry so much as he is a ‘member of the public’. He’s now getting sent bullets in the mail by idiotic football fans because a ‘member of the public’ thrust him in the middle of all this.

I’m sure, if you asked Ferdinand, he probably feels more abused by that ‘member of the public’ then he ever did by Terry.

by cwel87 on Feb 3, 2012 5:51 PM GMT up reply actions  

I doubt Ferdinand's that bright

He’s as swept up in this storm as everyone else (handshakes!)

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:53 PM GMT up reply actions  

It's not that AF didn't THINK he was abused he didn't KNOW.

Those are two totally different things and not having knowledge of said abuse until after the fact has no baring on the case. Just because he didn’t know it happened doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’m sure he feels “abused” by recieving a bullet in the mail but it isn’t a question of which action is more abusive.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:02 PM GMT up reply actions  

JT wanted to clear the air to make sure that AF didn't consider it "racial abuse"

And by all accounts, it sounds like that the air was indeed cleared. But then the QPR brain-trust appeared to not want to let it go. And then the public saw the video clip, which cuts off any and all context and construed racial abuse out of it and made the complaint.

I still do not see how you think that implies guilt of any sort.

How would you have advised JT to handle this then, presuming that he’s innocent and what he said to AF during the match was indeed “I did not call you xyz”? In your mind, what would been a step for JT to take to imply non-guilt? (Other than, you know, continue on insisting that he’s not-guilty.)

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 5:52 PM GMT up reply actions  

Ok

Firstly, from what I’ve read of both statements it wasn’t made clear when JT approached AF after the match what he was trying to clear up. If he really wanted to make sure AF knew he hadn’t called him what he apparently thought AF had heard (assuming he’s telling the truth) he should have been more specific and clear. If he’s willing to shout it in the middle of the pitch he should also be willing to say it privately to Anton after the game “Hey I didn’t call you….”

It doesn’t rule out the possibility that JT simply failed to express himself the right way when trying to clear things up with Anton but I think if he was innocent this is what he should’ve done and that’s what I would advise. At this point it’s difficult to say because he’s already made the initial mistake of not making sure that Anton knew that there was no abuse.

The problem with JT’s defense over all is that it implies that in a previous encounter (to the one in the video clip) Anton had accused JT of saying what he claims he didn’t say in the video clip. Anton claims to not have heard any racial abuse from JT at all so why would JT have to defend him self as he claims he is doing in the clip?

QPR isn’t like ManU in this case. They didn’t hear about this right after the match and run to the ref. The video clip was public already before QPR got involved at that point they can’t really “let it go” because then there is an investigation.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:18 PM GMT up reply actions  

Eh.

I’m not sure what else he could’ve done besides deny it all (i.e. “I did not call him that”) and I don’t think JT or his legal team or Chelsea as a club could’ve done anything differently in this whole ordeal. To their knowledge, they had cleared the air with Anton. Anything beyond that was and is out of their control.

We do not know what happened before the clip or what prompted JT to say what he said. If there was no prompt, and he just slagged off on Anton, then he should be found guilty of racial abuse and assigned proper punishment, including professional repercussions. If what JT says is true, and the case has been built on limited evidence of a truncated video, then he’ll be found innocent.

But to say that by using a strange defense (which in his version is the TRUTH) implies that he’s guilty…well, that I just don’t see. And you still haven’t answered my question as to how you would’ve thought he could’ve handled it so that his haters didn’t come away with the “implication” that he’s guilty. (And I fully accept the answer of “there was no other way for him to handle it; his haters were going to hate regardless of what he said”.)

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 7:32 PM GMT up reply actions  

I think you misunderstood why I think his defense implicates guilt

I guess the whole thing hinges on the the fact that Anton did not accuse JT of anything. He didn’t report the incident (to the FA the Ref or the police) and according to him he did not know what was being accused until later. If that’s the case, which I am inclined to believe, than JT is either lying or there was some huge misunderstanding where JT had thought Anton had accused him of racial abuse and he responded in the video clip with “I didn’t call you a…”

If that was the case then (as I said in my previous comment) I would’ve advised him to make it clear to Anton after the match that he had thought he accused him of saying something that he didn’t which would’ve cleared this whole mess up. There would be no case to answer for. As for now after this case has been brought up there isn’t a defense that would clear him in the minds of people who are convinced of his guilt or are inclined to believe he’s guilty because of who he is.

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 7:52 PM GMT up reply actions  

But Anton didn't bring the case; somebody in the public did.

As far as JT and the club were concerned, they cleared the air with him after the match.

I feel like we’re going in circles. I’m done.

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 8:22 PM GMT up reply actions  

Just when you thought the FA couldn't make an even bigger mockery of themselves...

If you’re going to strip him, why do it now? The investigation has been going on since last AUTUMN! The only thing that’s changed is that we now a concrete trial date. So just because that falls after the Euros, the FA couldn’t let it slide anymore? What a joke.

Also, way to usurp Capello’s power.

When the Daily Mail contains more sense than most of the rest of the world combined, you know we’ve reached Apocalypse. Well, I guess it is 2012 though…

I’m surprised JT has not yet been publicly throw in a pool of water with rocks tied around his feet to see if he floated or drowned.

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 3:54 PM GMT reply actions  

The FA listened to none other than...

RIO FERDINAND, and his twitter account! JK… but I do dislike that toolbag immensely. Let the conspiracy theorists run with that one.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:09 PM GMT up reply actions  

The other twitter account that was brought up on the radio as calling on the FA to do this was Frimpong's

I couldn’t help but just laugh and laugh at that one. I mean, Frimpong, really? A man known for his reserved manner and thoughtful attitude? And he’s not even an English International; why would he care who captain the England side??!

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 6:16 PM GMT up reply actions  

Ohhh

Just caught wind of Barton’s Twitter rant, as well. I don’t follow the ignorant thug, but I’m fairly certain it is a terrible idea for him to speak about that on a social network. I mean, I dunno if he was questioned or will be asked to, but would think that means he can’t now. That is, unless the rules are different in England regarding speaking on the topic prior to and during a trial.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 9:01 AM GMT up reply actions  

Aha!

I guess he can’t be a witness now (if he ever was supposed to be one). Wouldnt it be a little ironic if that could somehow cause Terry to not have to stand trial due to not being able to get a fair case, or some legal something-or-other along those lines?

Also.. everyone makes typos and stuff, but Barton needs to go back and learn the difference between certain homonyms. I sure hope he wont be teaching his child to read and write.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 3:48 PM GMT up reply actions  

Maybe they were hoping it would be resolved, one way or another, before the Euros?

But now that they know for sure it will still be hanging around at that time, they don’t want him to be captain at such a big tournament if this isn’t resolved yet. That makes sense enough to me.

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 6:02 PM GMT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm sure they were

But that’s why it’s a joke move.

If you’re going to suspend him or strip him of his captaincy because he’s facing criminal charges – fine. But do it, you know, when the charges are brought against him, not 6 months later when you find yourself with your pants pulled down.

The only thing we’ve ever asked out of the FA is consistency. Yet again, they’ve failed us.

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 6:19 PM GMT up reply actions  

dang I'm black

But really is this really going to court. Wow

by Bmoney556 on Feb 3, 2012 4:37 PM GMT via iPhone app reply actions  

You know, if I were accused of, say, sexually harrassing a colleague

I would be suspended on pay until the hearing. Is that a presumption of guilt?

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 4:54 PM GMT up reply actions  

Not by the employer

but would most likely lead to it by your colleagues… a sad fact of human nature. :( I do appreciate that their statement goes to the length of saying this does not imply guilt, and can only hope people read and remember that. Of course… hindsight may show it as a more than appropriate decision on their part depending on the outcome of the trial.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:14 PM GMT up reply actions  

Presumption of innocence is not a moral guideline

It’s a legal one. People can think what they want to think, as long as it doesn’t have an impact on legal proceedings.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 3, 2012 5:17 PM GMT up reply actions  

I suppose that is true

I probably align my morals too closely with legal procedures at times, given that they are often produced as some social compromise of what is most morally fair. But, again, legal systems are different everywhere, so I guess I can’t rest on my guidelines anyhow.

Doesn’t change that I hope people could wait for the trial before labeling him guilty… regardless of the outcome of Suarez’s FA case, I felt the same about that. Kinda wish this whole thing was dealt with sooner, though.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:33 PM GMT up reply actions  

Moral values change from place to place too

That’s why USers have a higher emphasis on free speech whereas UKers have a higher emphasis on anti-racism. The legal system is reflective of a set of cultural moral values

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 5:37 PM GMT up reply actions  

Right

that’s why I mentioned the part about different legal systems, if in fact, legal systems are a reflection of general morals and values in a given territory.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 5:40 PM GMT up reply actions  

I never understood why they gave him the captaincy back in the first place.

And I agree with Archit that he should probably just retire from England at this point. He’s too old and too disgraced. Just let it go.

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 5:01 PM GMT reply actions  

I wish he'd retire from England

and I wish the rest of the Chelsea squad would too. I’d have done it in my prime as a fun you to England and how they’ve all been treated. I just hope that everyone remembers that diving block he made in the WC for England last year.

by Culain on Feb 3, 2012 6:03 PM GMT up reply actions  

This shows his dedication

Even after getting kicked in his head against Arsenal he still puts it all on the line. I bet no one else would do it even for their club leave alone England.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 6:27 PM GMT up reply actions  

The asshole part of me

wants Cole to become captain. Just because. I mean, he’s no example, but anything that would piss of Ferdinand all the more. Why I disdain Rio so much, I am not sure, but he just irks me. Of course, it is that absurd kind of dislike, too, if I am being fair. It’s almost that I think he’s such a douche in person, as well as on the pitch, that I can’t bring myself to appreciate about anything of him. I suppose he was once a great defender.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 6:35 PM GMT up reply actions  

Rio doesn't even want to be captain

Would A. Cole make a good captain?

Official troll of WAGNH

by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:37 PM GMT up reply actions  

I nominate Jack Wilshere!

He’s gonna be it eventually anyway…

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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:39 PM GMT up reply actions  

I nominate Hart

Wilshere doesn’t look captain material.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 6:42 PM GMT up reply actions  

I'd say Hart too

but Jack is made to be future captain.

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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 3, 2012 6:45 PM GMT up reply actions  

Hart makes the most sense to me

Everyone else is either too young / inexperienced, or too Wayne Rooney

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 6:45 PM GMT up reply actions  

"Everyone else is either too young / inexperienced"

The captain is gonna be Gerrard or Lampard or Parker or Barry. All are above 30 and if you feel they are young we can bring back Heskey.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 6:49 PM GMT up reply actions  

Forgot about Barry

don’t see them ever giving it to the other three though.

by FootieFromAfar on Feb 3, 2012 6:56 PM GMT up reply actions  

John Terry

You can’t find a better captain. As for remaining guys I think Hart shows most leadership qualities. England shouldn’t be giving it to any old player because they need to look forward. I think ig they give it to Gerrard and later if Terry is proven innocent he could be again given the duties and I don’t want that.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 7:07 PM GMT up reply actions  

I thought Gerrard held it for a time

I mean, again, I don’t follow the England NT, so I have no idea but was sure I’d read that somewhere. It wouldnt be out of his experience, given he captains a club team. But then, Lampard has also co-captained, so if he is selected for the squad, he could be up for it. The trouble is that Capello doesnt seem to like playing him consistently enough for that type of role.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 4:47 AM GMT up reply actions  

I thought Gerrard held it for a time

I mean, again, I don’t follow the England NT, so I have no idea but was sure I’d read that somewhere. It wouldnt be out of his experience, given he captains a club team. But then, Lampard has also co-captained, so if he is selected for the squad, he could be up for it. The trouble is that Capello doesnt seem to like playing him consistently enough for that type of role.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 4:47 AM GMT up reply actions  

Fail

I am queen of accidental double-posts today. Bah.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 4:47 AM GMT up reply actions  

Guys...

joking… Cole would probably be a terrible captain, but what do I know? I support the USMNT and follow the Spanish NT. :P

I still get the impression that Rio has a thing for captain though. Maybe he doesnt want it at this moment, but he’s always seemed spiteful of Terry having it. Maybe I just read too much into it, but I didnt take kindly to his pitch that he was a family-values man, while Terry somehow wasn’t, yet he was caught red-handed himself.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 6:44 PM GMT up reply actions  

I'm sick of the media trying to portray JT as an evil person.

He is portrayed so negatively to the point that everyone not wearing blue is chanting things at him and booing him constantly.

by TheColorIsBlue on Feb 3, 2012 5:16 PM GMT reply actions  

I just don't understand why Terry is being punished

While Bellamy is not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHqAzrIp9M
It’s more clear and it is abuse. If they are against abuse they should be against all forms of it.

by Archit Arya on Feb 3, 2012 6:34 PM GMT reply actions  

You could report it

if you lived in England and felt it as discrimination… I can’t remember if nationality was included in the law, though.

by alynne4307 on Feb 3, 2012 6:39 PM GMT up reply actions  

You could make a case that the FA should've come down on it

Hurtful language, improper conduct, etc.

But I do not think it qualifies under racial abuse and thus is not a criminal offense.

by DPeezy on Feb 3, 2012 6:51 PM GMT up reply actions  

The same statute that applies to racism

also applies to a number of other things. Like I said, nationality may not be included, but it could have been. I have no idea where to find that part of the law, and I am much too lazy to Google that right now. That’s what happens after Friday night drinks.

Now, to me, it still seems over the top, but if it is in the law there, I suppose technically it could at least have a complaint filed for it.

by alynne4307 on Feb 4, 2012 4:50 AM GMT up reply actions  

It's a shame that it has come to this...

But I think it’s probably a wise decision by the FA; it would be a PR nightmare if he were to lead England to their first ever European title and then be convicted of racial abuse shortly thereafter.

I do find it difficult to believe that JT is ‘a racist’ as that’s a whole viewpoint that would be difficult to conceal for an extended period of time. What I find much easier to believe that in the heat of the moment he said something VERY VERY stupid.

Overall, I don’t see how there can be enough evidence to convict him, even if he did actually say it; although I guess we shall see what happens in the summer.

by deg0ey on Feb 3, 2012 7:09 PM GMT reply actions  

I disagree...

….that JT picks up his game every time there’s a public commotion about him. He really wasn’t good at all during the Wayne Bridge sort-of-non-affair-affair-with-someone-who-had-used-to-be-his-girlfriend. Well enough I guess not to cost them the title, but….

by ososdeoro on Feb 4, 2012 1:40 AM GMT reply actions  

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