A few quick thoughts on AVB and a potential change
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2012 4:15 PM GMT
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Chelsea fans are frustrated. I think it's pretty obvious. There are many in the media and around the internet that are seemingly hoping to see AVB sacked, and I can't say that would be totally without cause at this point. I'd personally be against the move though, and I'm going to go to bullet point form to point out the reasons why.
- The obvious question first...who replaces him? There isn't much available in the way of quality managers at the moment, and frankly anyone that is available now will likely still be available in the summer along with ridiculous amounts of other options. I don't want Fabio Capello anywhere near this squad as he'd almost certainly trot Frank, FloMo, and company out there every single match. Rafa Benitez is, well, Rafa Benitez. Other than that we really don't have much to choose from at this point. If Guus hadn't signed on at Anzhi it may be a bit different, but he did and it's not.
- Financial Fair Play needs to be considered here as well. We spent a lot to bring AVB in. It will cost us an awful lot to replace him. While we should certainly consider the move, we should also make sure we're best utilizing the available funds. Changing managers every 6 months is going to hurt our ability to buy players under the new rule. Who would you rather see replaced...AVB or Fernando Torres? Frank Lampard? Florent Malouda?
- He clearly sees that this team has issues so far as it's makeup goes. The full blown attempts to add Modric and Pastore this past summer should tell us that he saw this midfield issue very early in his tenure here. While we questioned his judgement in looking at Perreira and Coentrao, the need for someone of that type seems fairly obvious now. He's also pretty clearly been looking for a more natural winger. It seems to me like he's correctly identified our three biggest areas of need regardless of out failure to actually add to those positions.
I'm certainly not all that thrilled by what has transpired this season, but I think I may have had lower expectations than most when the season got underway. That said, firing a talented young manager for struggling with the transition of the roster and traditional expectation midway through his first season just makes very little sense to me. I feel that a managerial change at this moment will only slow down the rate at which this roster gets turned over, and that should be avoided at all costs. It's not really going to be fair to bring in any manager with the roster in it's current state, if AVB is not the future let's allow him to help push out the dead wood at the very least.
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I'm in complete agreement...
This was always going to be a difficult transitional season. It’s not AVB’s fault that he has been saddled with an older, injury prone squad and a £50m striker who couldn’t score in a brothel. This club will never get anywhere if they keep replacing managers at the rate of one every season and a half. If they can manage to finish in the top four I will consider it a relative success. There needs to be a major clearout over the summer and I’d rather see AVB manage it than some fossil like Capello.
Editor, OnceaMetro.com
For the life of me I can't understand the calls for Rafa Benitez
The guy who took a treble-winning side that was largely unchanged and ran it straight into the ground.
For those that may misunderstand what bsally is saying here...
They won A treble, not THE treble – there is an important, Premier-League-shaped difference.
I honestly don't know how much is down to AVB and how much is down to...
…it being a transitional season.
Either way, this is a team in horrible form that looks incapable of reliably winning in League 1, let alone the Premier League. AVB just doesn’t seem like the guy who’s going to turn it around. He has the lowest winning percentage of any Chelsea manager in nearly 20 years, and I can’t believe that’s because the players have become that bad.
I honestly don’t know what the solution is. I wish there was a way to put AVB on gardening leave for a few months until he can orchestrate the clear-out, rather than sacking him. He’d be my pick to lead it, but the team looks in need of a change before then. If Roman does pull the trigger, I don’t think he’d go for someone long-term, just another Grant/Hiddink-style caretaker.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
I'm of the opinion that AVB is doing about as well as can be expected of him
with the players that we have. That’s not to say another manager might not be doing better at this point (although I think it’d take someone in the realms of Hiddink or Mourinho for us to actually have been better off) but I take a similar view of AVB as I would with a young player.
He clearly has talent (you don’t win the CL with Porto by accident) but is still a little raw and yet to reach the peak of his managerial potential. It may be rough for a season or two while he settles in and finds his feet, but I truly believe that he will develop into one of the best managers in the world and that we will eventually reap the benefits of sticking with him through the difficult times.
I did write a post on my phone correcting myself there...
But it doesn’t seem to have showed up; no idea why. I don’t talk about the Europa League very much, so I think it was force of habit to put a C instead of an E :p
As much as I think we need a change, I still think AVB is the best bet for the clear-out and...
…after. That’s why I wish we could put him on gardening leave until June, and fins someone to stabilise the team now.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 23, 2012 4:05 AM GMT up reply actions
Yeah, I got that...
And I don’t think there’s anybody we could get in that would be able to do any better at stabilising the team than AVB is – everybody is either currently employed or a bit rubbish…
If there was anyone decent available (Guus just had to go to Russia) I would sack AVB now.
AVB is out of his depth and it is showing against top class competition. However, as SS noted the only big name options now are Fabio and Rafa. If either one of these men appeal to you in a football sense I suggest you lower your intake of highly illegal substances. Take a gander at Fabio’s World Cup squad and their performances before backing him and as to Rafa, well did you watch Liverpool play under him? My eyes are still recovering. I could also mention the farce at Inter when it was evident to all that he could not hold Jose’s jock let alone manage his former team.
So we are stuck with an underperforming team and a manager that at least to me (and to quite a few Chelsea fans attending our games) feel does not know what he is doing.
I have regressed back to the Avram Grant theory: If we win, great we win, but if we lose we are one game closer to him getting the sack.
I agree 100%
For all his selection and formation mistakes, he’s targeted the right kind of players in the market. It’s not his fault if the Chelsea executives couldn’t deliver. He asked for a winger, a creative CM, and a LB. And he doesn’t seem afraid to phase out the older players. Just look at what he’s done with Lampard.
I like his long term vision and wanna see what he does next year, after the roster looks very different (hopefully).
by FootieFromAfar on Feb 22, 2012 5:02 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
The majority of the old guard has to go
If we class the old guard as Cech, JT, Cole, Lamps and Drogba, I’d sell them all expect Cech and JT. JT is still a class act and publicly backs Villas-Boas. He is the sort of character that I expect does what he is told to do without complaints and fuss. Cech is our first choice goal keeper and Cortious is not yet ready for Chelsea’s first team.
That said, losing Cole Lampard and Drogba will need replacements. I’d sell Torres to and play Sturridge down the middle. He looks like a natural centre forward and I think a few years down the line he’ll be Englands number 9. Josh will replace Lampard and I’d break the bank to sign Pereira.
The following season, Cech goes for Cortious providing he is ready and JT’s form and fitness should be assessed then.
If we were going to sack AVB which I feel should only happen if we fail to get 4th, I wouldn’t go for Jose. He’s a temporary fix, I’d rather Van Haal.
I'd mostly agree with you there
I have to say though, having watched basically every Atletico game and every Chelsea game this season, Thibaut Courtois has been hands down a better keeper than Petr Cech. Cech is going to be pretty busy at the Euro’s this summer, so I really think Courtois may have an opportunity to step in and force Petr out of the lineup.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2012 5:19 PM GMT up reply actions
Apparently to Atletico fans he is the same level that De Gea was last season, and none of us would call De Gea better than Cech, maybe as a shot stopper but not at commanding the penalty area.
De Gea at Atletico last year may have been the best keeper in Europe.
He’s had a rough transition and reverted a bit, but that shouldn’t be any reason not to try Courtois. De Gea is more the exception rather than the rule.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2012 5:23 PM GMT up reply actions
Very good argument, could all depend on if Courtois keeps it up and how much £ we can get for Cech. Cech is a fantastic keeper capable of class saves but has been beaten easily this season, a sign of him fading?
What would you think of our centre forward situation? I personally think having a 20 goal a season striker is something we’ve missed since we won the double and if we had that now we’d probably be 3rd or 4th very close to 3rd.
We just need more dynamic players.
Napoli yesterday had Hamsik, Lavezzi, Cavani, and Maggio that all offer matchup nightmares. We had Mata. We also had Ramires on the pitch but were using him in a role where his best attributes went to waste. We have Luiz, but as a center back his role in the attack will always be limited. Meireles for Lampard, Ramires for Essien…those changes would likely have been marginal upgrades at best. Torres or Drogba would be nightmares if we had more dynamic players supporting them. There aren’t going to be many center forward who can impact games if they are the only thing a center back has to worry about.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2012 5:39 PM GMT up reply actions
Maggio impressed me
I’ve watched some Napoli, but hadn’t paid close enough attention, as I generally think of the front three. I feel like I saw more from him than Hamsik yesterday (goal aside). I also was working on my laptop while watching because I knew the outcome and things got less happy after Mata’s goal. So maybe I just happened to look up when Maggio was doing his thang.
You are right midfield needs a revamp
But I still don’t think Torres or Drogba could score 20 in the Barcelona or Madrid team.
Probably not
But I think with some midfield restructuring and a bit of creative play, they might get to each score 10… which is more than they are both sitting on now. I’d gladly take that at this point, but even more so, I’d like it for whatever striker(s) are there in the future. Nothing bad about having a strong midfield. In fact… you mention Barca… they mostly are a team of strong midfielders that just happen to sit on different parts of the pitch. :) (Though… I’d much prefer not having a team that is entirely midfielders… I’d be a Barca fan if that were my thing.)
I doubt Torres or Drogba would get much playing at Madrid or Barca!
Certainly not enough to get 20 goals a season! Although if they were to play 90 minutes regularly in a central striker role for either of those teams then yes I would still expect both to score 20 goals a season, however you could say the same about any half decent striker!
by conorjmartin on Feb 24, 2012 4:57 PM GMT up reply actions
Agreed. If I had to rank the top 3 keepers in La Liga right now, it would pan out --
1. Casillas
2. Courtois
3. Valdes
And that’s a un-biased list before someone gives me lip about it.
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Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
by Timm Higgins on Feb 22, 2012 10:00 PM GMT up reply actions
AVB should certainly stay for me!!!!!
AVB has a plan for Chelsea and i believe Roman shares that vision. For this reason I believe there is going to be a clear out this summer. Also I don’t believe Fernando Torres is to be blamed for not scoring. Our midfield is not doing much on the front of feeding him now are they. The only reason I see Sturridge scoring is because Torres is creating chances for him. I feel for him.. REALLY!!!! Lets give him a chance till mid on next year and see if there is improvement to the current chelsea team. The only doubt I have is whether Di Matteo is the right guy to be the Assistant manager to AVB. I can be wrong, but I feel that come this summer we have to look for a better No2.
by Sandeep V Sarathy on Feb 22, 2012 5:03 PM GMT reply actions
Actually, with Torres...
…his problem has developed into one where his movement is the biggest problem, rather than service. Not that cracking down on him for running behind defenders wouldn’t just bring service back into the frame, mind.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 22, 2012 5:08 PM GMT up reply actions
But you've got to admit that the service from midfield has been bad!!!
I have seen matches wherein he takes the ball from midfield and tries to create chances for the team. The cross for Studge against ManU – Brilliant!! How long has it been since we have seen that? His movement again is down to confidence. As a striker you need to have confidence to score which at the moment he is not and when you dissect it properly it comes down to the midfield which is not feeding him the ball properly. I think for the same matter Drogba has been dreadful this season as well.
by Sandeep V Sarathy on Feb 22, 2012 5:16 PM GMT up reply actions
Oh, I know, Lord knows I do, but his biggest problem right now is that he's not...
…getting into positions to be served. Stephen did a post in the past week about, and you should find it in the archives.
As for our striker, I think we should put Danny up front, and use more Kalou on the right!
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 22, 2012 5:19 PM GMT up reply actions
Things have gotten so bad that we’re actually considering Kalou as part of our starting 11 huh? I’d much rather have Torres on the right (or anywhere) than him tbh.
When we won the double two years ago do you remember who was the starting right winger during our stretch run?
He’s the only starter left from that side that isn’t well into their decline
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 23, 2012 1:30 AM GMT up reply actions
He actually looks better now, and...
…Kalou wide + Danny at striker seems better than Danny wide + Didi or Nando striker. AVB has changed to formations where Danny is playing more centrally recently, and he looks better than out wide.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 23, 2012 4:02 AM GMT up reply actions
You bring up an interesting point about RDM
I’ve seen mention of this in a few places but I don’t really feel informed enough about it. Some folks suggest that he and AVB seem to have little chemistry, or that RDM seems unhelpful with suggestions on substitutes. I think a lot of the concern stems from RDM’s desire to return to head manager. I will say that he appears fairly withdrawn a lot of the time, but that may just be his style.
RDM was like that at WBA too.
He’s not up all the time like AVB.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 23, 2012 4:02 AM GMT up reply actions
Well
I’m not as concerned about him being on the touchline specifically… he just appears to have little involvement in whatever capacity I have seen him. Like I said, he may just be a really laid back and even-tempered kind of guy (most people are when compared to AVB, haha). Some of the other coaches seem to be more interactive than he does, so I think it just leads to speculation, especially after the comments that happened in November/December… whenever that was. And now with recent failures, some folks wanna believe it is sabotage.
I really don’t know… don’t know enough about RDM… just stating what I’ve seen and heard some other fans saying on other sites.
I'd like to see a more defensive assistant manager come in
to try and sort out our defence. Suggestions anyone?
If I remember correctly
he wanted to be with Zola when he took over at West Ham
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Another potential candidate in zola?
I did read an article recently saying he’d love to give more to Chelsea, but read another article saying that he is studying Pep Guardiorla’s coaching methods and wants to be a manager again. I don’t think he’d be happy being assistant.
The other way of looking at that...
Is that being assistant manager to a man that bases his own football quite closely on the methods of Pep Guardiola could be a good way to get back into being a manager again, because, let’s be honest, he doesn’t have a particularly good legacy from his last job.
If we stick with AVB, we risk missing out on 4th place.
If we sack him, we risk somebody coming in and keeping hold of the problem/rubbish players that AVB will get rid of in the summer, which would – IMO – put us back 2-3 years anyway.
The manager has identified the problems that need solving in our squad, and despite a rather poor summer in which we missed out on Pastore and Modric, I believe he will be more successful this time around with the added bonus of Drogba, Kalou, and Malouda (at least) all moving on. The most important thing for Chelsea right now is to overhaul the playing squad, and right now we at least have a manager who can do that. Whereas if we sack him, the next manager will undoubtedly stick with the players who have made Chelsea a success in the recent years, thinking that he can somehow get them back to what they were, which will never happen. We have the basis of a good squad here that can serve us well for the next 10 years. It’s the older players that are causing our problems right now.
Keep AVB. Sack the players.
by MischievousNinja87 on Feb 22, 2012 5:06 PM GMT reply actions
We risk missing 4th place with any manager in charge. Our season so far has been that bad.
But since you make a different point in the text of the message: remember the stuff about financial fair play. We can’t keep buying our way into success, so we must now start having to buy well and I don’t really know of any manager who’s truly good at that. Every one of them seem to have made both great buys and bad buys.
We definitely have to be smarter with the money we spend.....
….and that’s another thing that works in AVB’s favour IMO. I know they’re not all his signings, but we’ve made an impressive effort to sign younger players and also to get them first team experience. We’ve ballsed-up quite badly with Lukaku, but Courtois, Kalas, Bruma, Kakuta, McEacrhan (hopefuly), and de Bruyne are all benefiting from first team experience this year. I’m not sure how many of those will make it with us, but like I said, we have the basis of a good squad already. We don’t need a lot of signings, and certainly not in the region of £40-50 million. We just need to be a lot smarter with what money we have. That has to include not sacking managers after less than a year in charge. He deserves another summer to show what he can do in the market. If it’s still not going well this time next year…..at least the new manager will have less egos to deal with.
by MischievousNinja87 on Feb 22, 2012 5:20 PM GMT up reply actions
Mourinho comes only once..
#1. I can hardly think of the managers (like Mourinho) – who have won in their debut seasons & continued the success. Managers like Fergie, Sacchi, Capello, Lippi dont arrive on the planet quite often. Then come the others – likes of Ancelotti, Wenger, Clough etc… & then the rest like Avram Grant :).
#2. We dont know if AVB falls in any of the above type or if he doesnt. To identify, any manager needs to be given time – so that he can build a team he likes & induce his ideas in it. It needs time for most of the managers.
#3. A good manager can bring decent success to a club over time. Great managers bring excellent success – everyone knows instantaneous success is not easy to achieve. Chelsea are a club which seek immediate success. Money is not a problem; but we don’t have time.
#1,2 &3 —> Chelsea won’t get Mourinho like managers everytime, RA won’t accept 2nd/3rd place in Prem – which are basic foundation for other managers to build the future on. We seriously don’t know if AVB is really the man for future. It’s baffling.
As Graham said, no top manager appears to be available for short term. AVB needs to be persisted with at least for couple of seasons, should be given time. Somehow, someone needs to convince RA that a 5mn Chicarito or a free agent namely Demba Ba can not only outscore a 50 mn Torres/30 mn Shevchenko; but cause disruptions of the team harmony & player- manager relations. RA, while Chelsea will always be indebted by what you have done for club; being a little patient & sticking with a manager for more than average time will certainly bear fruits.
My vote – stick with AVB till at least end of next of season (provided we correct the current form & actually see progress in team’s style / philosophy).
(btw, I seriously dont know why AVB is imposing his philosophy on players which are not suited for system. You need to make use of experience we have & gradually replace that with suitable players – who actually fit in the system. Imposing a big change all of sudden doesnt help you build a team of future – but only degrades the preset – as has been the case with Chelsea this season).
your last paragraph actually bears the real question
it seems AVB and Chelsea are in deep doodoo because his theories collided with reality and he didnt demonstrate any sufficent people management skills so far. What he did demonstate is that he couldnt manage his star players and play to their skills, clearly because of his lack of general life experience. So then is he a man for the “future”? He will probably learn to be more diplomatic and patient, not sure it will happen @Chelsea.
I think any manager would have come across as being a poor man manager with Chelsea this season!
The problem is the star players and big dressing room influences at Chelsea have got such huge ego’s and feel they have a divine right to play when they want and how they want despite the fact that these stars are finished at this level!This I feel may partly be down the fact that Roman has continually backed them before managers over the years, constantly sacking managers and never questioning the ability of the squad has left us in a poor state!Any manager faced with trying to phase out the senior players who think they own the club was going to face a backlash of petulance and petty moaning from under performing pensioners. If AVB or anybody else for that matter is to succeed they must move on Lampard, Cole, Drogba and a few others for the good of the rest of the team, these senior players have created a bad atmosphere. Just look at Newcastle for example, they sold there top players and most influential members of the squad but in the process they became a team with everybody pulling in the same direction and working for each other. Chelsea will never have that sort of spirit as long as the senior players are still there trying to hold on to the power they once enjoyed!
by conorjmartin on Feb 24, 2012 5:32 PM GMT up reply actions
Keep AVB. He could certainly be doing better with the players he has, and he could
certainly be using more of our youth, but how much better would the results be? Not much if at all, IMO. Just please, stop playing Raul.
You don’t win a treble in Portugal without having some sort of talent. The players at Porto respected AVB and didn’t question his every move, (they also weren’t filled with has beens) and look at where that got him?
If Manchester United were as impatient as some of us, Fergie would’ve been gone before you knew it.
heard Pep would only leave looking for a new challenge
I think this is a challenge? (only half sarcastic)
I'd really rather not.
I think Pep is a dick. I’m also unsure how much is due to the fact that he’s in charge of some of the best players ever.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 22, 2012 5:21 PM GMT up reply actions
What's wrong with having a dick as a manager?
Seems like a good personality to get the players to behave.
Worse than Mou?
I don't even know what to put in here knowing Steve can just change it anytime he wants (the jerk) :cP also something about trolling CFC and WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 22, 2012 5:33 PM GMT up reply actions
Jose is an arsehole, not a dick.
Pep seems slightly more petty that Mourinho.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 22, 2012 5:35 PM GMT up reply actions
He's never poked a man in the eye :c)
I don't even know what to put in here knowing Steve can just change it anytime he wants (the jerk) :cP also something about trolling CFC and WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 22, 2012 5:38 PM GMT up reply actions
I somehow always get this feeling
that Roman is trying to lay down all the ground work only to one day welcome Pep Guardiola..to fulfill Roman’s Chelsea like Barca dream..
Conspiratorial mind..But if he really wants to see chelsea play like barca,who would Roman think of first?!
AVB needs to stay
This really shouldn’t be a discussion at this point. Sure, he has made some questionable tactical decisions at times (QUIT PLAYING RAUL). With that said, we have to remember that most of us saw this as a transitional year. While we might not have expected to struggle as much as we have, we knew this phase was coming. Also, let’s keep in mind that AVB is having to deal with a handful of aging veterans who are set in their ways (Lamp, Drogba, Cole) and are very resistant to change. He also has to deal with a 50 million waste of space in Torres.
While he can frustrate me to no end at times, I do believe in what AVB is trying to do. I respect the fact that he is willing to risk his job in order to create an actual change. True change cannot happen overnight… it takes time. If we do miss out on 4th place this season, then I am all for re-assessing the situation. Until then, let’s give him a chance to establish the culture and mindset that made him so successfull with Porto.
I believe in Auburn and love it.
Slightly off-topic....
…but I like this article. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/22/the-fiver-chelsea-champions-league
by sdb123 on Feb 22, 2012 5:41 PM GMT reply actions 3 recs
Holy shit, who is Paul Doyle and under what pseudonym does he comment here at WAGNH? :P
Whereas in the past most Chelsea players picked themselves by dint of their performances, now most Chelsea players want to pick themselves by dint of their pasts. Villas-Boas’s brief is to build for the future. To be sure he has made some mistakes, but not as many as a lot of the players, including most of the ones who fancy themselves as the eternal guardians of the club’s honour, but who are actually helping to make it a laughing stock.
I also fancy..
..the whole “Maybe he didn’t put Cole on the bench out of spite but because he’s played like shit” (paraphrasing of course)
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Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
by Timm Higgins on Feb 22, 2012 10:12 PM GMT up reply actions
Teehee
“Alas, this double D again looked bust”
Oh, play on words… you are funny.
Just to keep things from becoming even somewhat reasonable for Chelsea, The Guardian prints this nonsense today
Faith in André Villas-Boas slowly eroding among Chelsea hierarchy
I’ll spare you from having to read it, but there is a grand total of ZERO quotes about any of what the title says. Just vague prose about whatever the writer imagines is going on at the club and how the latest result has “spread alarm among the club’s hierarchy.” Such unsubstantiated nonsense. And of course, it’s the most read article of the last 24 hours.
It's nice to see that the silent majority is much more sensible than the often loud minority
Yey, polls!
Also, let’s get hyped for the Youth Cup!!!
by DPeezy on Feb 22, 2012 5:52 PM GMT reply actions 1 recs
I certainly am
I’m sure Patrick Bamford had some insights into how to approach this tie
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 22, 2012 5:56 PM GMT up reply actions
What.
Don’t disappoint anyone here! You were the first one to rant against AVB ;) :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I voted no....
…..let’s not change. Do the big transition and then see what happens.
If Roman can’t stand it anymore and gives him the sack, I’d like to see Paul Lambert hired. As one post above said, good managers don’t hit the planet all that often. It seems a good bet that someone who can achieve two promotions in two years and have the same basic squad in 8th place deserves some consideration.
Or maybe we just need Grant Holt on the attack :)
also happy to see the poll results
and the article itself is logical too … AVB wanted a new LB, we all chided him. AVB wanted a winger and a creative CM, he didn’t get them. so we can’t blindly accuse him of not addressing the structural changes that were needed.
i do think starting Meireles was terrible, but i am starting to see some reasoning behind it at least … considering that Ramires is not a particularly good passer, perhaps Meireles was chosen b/c of his long range passing along w/ his activity. it was his 40 yard pass that Sturridge backheeled in way at the beginning of the season right? so maybe the goal of creating another such sequence was the reasoning behind Meireles starting. obviously Meireles didn’t fulfill that expectation though.
i kinda think AVB has pretty much the hardest job ever: initiate a seismic change in a successful club’s playing style which necessarily involves phasing out some of the club’s legends; achieve results in the short-term by selling these same recalcitrant players on a future project that doesn’t involve them; please an extremely demanding fan base and a “ruthless” owner while setting up for the future; deal with the pressure of a rabid media. all while, you know, handling the actual tactics and day-to-day running of the team. i really want AVB to come through this crucible and get to the point where he really has the squad to implement his style of play. it’s hard to judge someone’s plan when they haven’t had a chance to actually display it. here’s hoping AVB gets those (type of) players he was trying to get prior to this season. UP BLUES!
by dojothecat on Feb 22, 2012 8:00 PM GMT reply actions 2 recs
I think he has a clear vision of what he wants , lets state d obvious here , though ...
When Scolari came in rumors had it by Feb he had ‘lost the dressing room’ , in came Hiddink , he motivated d players (didn’t bring in any new players) and got them to top fitness and happiness , in come Ancellotti the following season and rampages the League and Fa Cup , then the following season we ramapge the 1st 3 months of the season , then for some mysterious reason we sack Ray Wilkins and since then we’ve been a step or 2 shy , co-incidence ? I think not , these players r all like spoiled brats but they have ego’s and feelings as well , a player can’t just go out publically adn critiszie the manager or whatever he’ll be fired d next day (unless his name is Carlos Trvez) , so he expresses it in his football …
Not wanting to be picky...
but what’s with your occasional use of the letter-d to represent the word ‘the’? I’d sort of understand (although find it even more difficult to read) if you did it every time, but it’s only sometimes; doesn’t seem to make much sense.
Having said that, I think you have some valid points about what’s going on…
Yeah, I just figured that if you were going to do that
You’d do it every time, rather than just sometimes. shrug no idea.
We need to get Ray back if we want to finish 4th for sure , then we can decide in d summer what needs to be done to overhaul , I for 1 like AvB’s ideas , i thought at the begining of the season our soccer was attractive , (theunited game d 2nd half we had em on d back foot ) but we lacked a striker to finish off d game … We seem to have gone backwards since then , but I think AvB showed in December that he can sit back and win if he wants to as well (ala Valencia and man City ) , or he can install a new belief in this Chelsea side
I swear to god, if AVB gets canned and my club hires Rafa
I will become a United fan.
Tell us how you really feel
But really… that is a terrible idea. There is never a good reason to be a United fan.
Your username already says everything I could say
about that idea above :( but nonetheless – NEVER do it!
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Don't worry!
It was just a joke. Still, I would actually like to see AVB get a solid 2 years here. He was brought in to a squad that has been largely unchanged in 5 years and was expected to work magic. No one could have done that.
AVB is not dumb. He knows there is a problem, and I would like to see how he responds and moves forward. SAF took a team that won the league and made it to the Champions League final last year and put them in a position where they may only win the Europa league. Does that make him a bad manager? No. And you can sure as hell bet United will be back with a vengeance in the Champions league next year. I would like to think AVB will do the same in the league, and I would rather give him 1 more to find that out than bring in a plank like Rafa.
for being known as a tactical mastermind, AVB has had some awful ideas
- He could have cleared out Malouda, Bosingwa, Anelka, and
- He let Josh sit on the bench when he could have made an impact in at least 5 matches
- He exiled Alex (who I’d rate as our second-best defender behind JT) and replaced him with Gary Cahill
- He has taken Mata off a handful of times this season when we needed a late goal
- He has forgotten about Oriol Romeu
- He let Bosingwa start at left-back against Napoli. I know, Ashley was “hurt” and everything, but he certainly didn’t look like it after playing 80 minutes.
- I don’t care who you are, but you don’t go into a must-win Champions League tie in an imposing environment with Essien and Lampard on the bench. You just don’t. Would SAF or Jose have done that? The folly of that decision was evident after 10 minutes and we didn’t settle down until the changes were finally made.
I desperately want AVB to succeed, but his man-management skills are shockingly bad, the lineups that he puts on the field in key games are always off the mark, and he makes poor tactical changes during games. And, for wanting to launch a “revolution,” he did very little last summer when he could really have put his mark on the squad. Don’t forget, Mata was a late move and Meireles was signed at the 11th hour. His biggest targets all fell through. He didn’t bring in a replacement for Anelka in January. He let us enter the season with Torres and Drogba as our striking options despite the fact that both struggled last season.
I have been surprised the most by how frequently his tactics turn into a disaster. How many times were you blown away by his plan for a big game this season? I can’t remember any. We were run over by Arsenal, United (at OT), Liveprool and Napoli. Even the result of the season, the win over City, was only salvaged by a Lescott handball. We almost managed to get knocked out of the UCL in the group stage and almost certainly will now. I want this guy to succeed, but it is hard to reflect back on the past six or seven months and take away a lot of positives.
i feel like he is too young and too green for this job. he will succeed somewhere one day, but the timing with us has been terrible. I am happy if he stays and I am willing to give him time to prove himself. However, if bringing in Benitez can right the ship and solidify fourth place and convince Roman to bring Jose back this summer, I wouldn’t complain at all. I know Jose has burned a lot of bridges with you guys but he should never have left in the first place. He knows it, the players know it, most of the fans know it, and I’d bet that Roman knows it too.
I feel as if most of your criticisms are unfounded
But I do agree with being baffled at the starting midfield on Tuesday and the lack of real opportunities for McEachran.
-Malouda was one of our best players last season (and esp. the season before). He could’ve been sold, yes. But it didn’t really make that much sense at the time. Selling him before any midfield reinforcements had arrived would’ve been foolish, at best.
-Bosingwa was great for the first few matches and there was a slight bit of hope that he would live up to his billing.
-Alex didn’t like our style. He wanted out. And I don’t think many would agree with you on your assessment of him being our 2nd best defender. Swapping him for Cahill was like-for-like. Backups, both of them, ideally.
-Mata has been subbed off a few times – more often than not, he was not playing all that well.
-Romeu has turned out not to be our saviour (just yet). He was absolute shit against ManU in his efforts to “shore up” our defense.
-Cole was hurt. He played like shit after he came on. He has played like shit all season. Bosingwa has been much better at left back than right. It’s hardly AVB’s fault that most of our fullbacks have turned sour. Remember when we all were baffled as to why he wanted to go after Alvaro Perreira? Sadly, he didn’t get his wish…and the same can be said for the Modric saga.
-We did not look any better after Essien & Lampard came on. Lampard, especially, played almost as stupidly as Meireles.
"But I do agree with being baffled at the starting midfield on Tuesday"
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but surely he can’t be blamed for choosing not to start a 33 year old and a guy 1 month returned from a ruptured ACL (his second ACL injury in 3 years) against a team whose primary weapon is a speedy counter-attack. He does, however, deserve some blame for not making the change earlier once it became apparent that Ramires and Meireles weren’t getting it done.
To be fair (to me and others)
We were baffled when the lineups were announced, not just after. :P
Meireles was so clearly the wrong option, it’s not even funny.
What I meant was that it actually made sense at the time (for the reason I stated)
But having seen the game, it obviously didn’t go to plan.
Meireles and Ramires are both younger and healthier than Essien and Lampard. When you’re playing a team that want to catch you on the counter, you need to pick the guys that can get back and cover and it’s reasonable to think that Meireles and Ramires could do a better job of that. Turns out they couldn’t, but it was a reasonable idea.
I'm jealous that you can find any modicum of sense in playing Meireles
Because to me, there is absolutely zero sense in playing him. Not on Tuesday. No on the weekend. Not now. Not ever. Begone, Meireles!
Haha yes, I think 'Begone, Meireles' is a reasonable sentiment...
But I can at least see the thought process that might lead somebody to think he was the right option on Tuesday. As I said before, though, there’s no excuse for it taking so long to realise he wasn’t doing anything productive and taking him off, though.
My memory may not be serving me...
“I don’t care who you are, but you don’t go into a must-win Champions League tie in an imposing environment with Essien and Lampard on the bench. You just don’t. Would SAF or Jose have done that?”
but didnt SAF sort of do that with his players in their CL matches this season?
It seems others have caught onto the real problem, too
https://twitter.com/#!/JimmyConrad_com/status/172054057857458179
Landon Donovan retweeted it… methinks he must be in agreement after the Everton match. Landon- that sort of thinking didnt help you much during your previous stint in England, now did it?
Wasn’t she there before? Everyone seems to just be catching on to her now.
I think they've finally decided that it's ok to mention or point her out
Unless your name is Keys or Gray.
And yeah, she’s been there all season.
Mata was cured
From Eva’s magic sponge against Napoli. Lucky man.
Not quite
Apparently he broke a finger or something. But… that’s a playable injury, at least.
I thought she was there before this year
Then again, I have no real idea… she’s more the guys’ department than mine :)
She's been with the team for a few years now (2009, iirc)
But she was promoted to head physio this season and thus promoted to the bench.
Ahhh
That’s it, then. I wondered why I hadn’t really seen her until this season.
Can someone please answer this for me??
1. Creative Midfielder Dilemma.. More like a nightmare
We tried to sign Pastore.. why would he go to PSG is beyond me?? Fine I understand this is football.. strange things happen.. We went all out for Modric.. Spuds didnt want to sell.. we tried but failed.. again.. Fine atleast it was a good try… NOW
A. Why was there NO option 3?
B. At the 11th hour we went for Meireles for 12 Million.. He is a box to box midfielder.. for the same position we already have.. Yossi (on loan).. Ramires, Essien and Lampard.. Why OH why we went for him?
C. for 10 Million.. 2 million less we could have possible got Arteta… who is a creative medifielder.. well may not be the best but has done really well for Everton and is Spanish along with Mata and Torres he could have atleast been able to stabilize our stinking midfield.
2. Alex & Anelka – Was it really necessary
While I understand that none of actually get to know what goes down in the dressing room and on the training pitch so it is only permutation and combination what we guys can make.
Alex – 3rd choice center back behind JT and Luiz.. Hardly ever gave and press interviews for Chelsea.. extremely low key individual.. no controversies at all
Anelka – 4th choice striker behind Drogba, Sturridge and Torres, again hardly anyone who speaks out and keeps to himself
AVB decided to throw them out of the team and rip into them and treats them to set an example of players who are not performing (according to the reports in Media), Well lets all go back and compare the number of games and mistakes made by the CB’s and strikers all ahead of Anelka and Alex to rationalize whether it was right on AVB’s part to treat these two individuals like he did? The answer is NO!!
Why not make an example of the big boys who don’t perform.. MALOUDA, BOSINGWA, Drogba, JT, Lamps, Cole, Cech.. You sell them any of these 2 preferably MOFO Malouda and monkey boy Bosingwa both waste of time and space atleast you would have put the fear of god in the senior player’s heart!! They would have known that AVB means business and is not scared of no egos… Performance wise Alex and Anelka both add more value to the team than Malouda and Bosingwa (I know not the same positions.. my argument is based on the value to the team and more consistent performance)
As much as I like Luiz, he is prone to mistakes and gets casual.. he is improving but again he is costing us goals.. he should have been ripped apart too right.. I am sure he must have got some stick and I hope he gets better coz he is talented.
3. AVB – It requires a revolution and NOT an evolution
AVB has been brought in for a revolution and not and evolution it is as simple as that! I am sick of hearing that we are a team in "transition".. NO we are not we are a bunch of egos who based on their performaces are only a shadow of their formerselves.. MAN UNITED are a team in transition.. they have been added new blood to the system while ensuring that they play with the same philosophy as before.. they have bough players who have fit into their roles with outmost ease.. Chicharito last year.. Young, Jones, Smalling et all are all playing really well. YES they have had their share of hits and misses but any Chelsea fan would want to be in their shoes in a heartbeat as things stand at the moment… We are bringing in 2 new players into the starting 11 (Sturridge and Mata) and trying to change the whole philosophy of how we play football.. WONT happen AVB.. You should be smart enough to know that!!
4. Where are the youngsters?
I want answers for Kakuta (got a transfer embriago for poaching him), McEachran, Lukaku, Bertrand, Davila. Between them they must be worth atleast 50 Million.. If they are the future of Chelsea I want to see them AT Chelsea.. Will they ever be ready for the first team? Next window we are hoping to buy some extra ordinary talent to become the best again and challenge for all the trophies so again these boys will be loaned out? And then let go of like of Borini – 6 goals in 14 games for Roma!
Rather see us on number 5 and getting clobbered by pretty much everyone with these youngsters than with the old farts we now have who can only make noise and do nothing!! Time to give these boys a run in or just let go of them.. don’t remember Becks, Scholes, Giggs, Messi, Totti et all being loaned out season after season.. if NOT then admit they are not world class and just sell them off!
5. Finally – JT what do we do?
Slipping is becoming a habit post that dreadful night in Moscow! Be it performance, integrity or spirit. JT you are our captain and we love you. You will always be our ledged but what are you doing to the club? Remember the CLUB – has been, is and will always be bigger than the players – Wayne Bridge incident, unsolicited club and training pitch tours 7 now abusing Ferdinand – WHAT are you doing? The performances have gone down and so has then resistance in your body. You know why? Answer – Its all in the mind once you can solely focus on football everything will be back and if it is a little to late then please call it a day and go our separate ways.. Don’t rubbish our clubs name (I know that the racial slurs against Ferdinand are yet to be given a verdict but in all fairness we could have NOT been in this position) . I feel it is time that we remember you with pride and fondness rather than…..
Please this is only my opinion, you are free to agree or disagree on all the above. But I am looking for the above to be answered…
I'll have at answering your post (even though most of it isn't a question)
1. Pastore went to PSG because they are paying him a LOT of money. We wouldn’t do that because we’re trying to reduce our wage bill because of FFP.
A) Just because no option 3 was reported doesn’t mean we weren’t looking at (and trying to sign) other people
B) We went for him because we needed a replacement for the injured Essien and the on loan Benayoun (who wanted more playing time than we were prepared to offer)
C) He has also been notoriously injury prone for pretty much his entire career. He’s managed to stay healthy so far at Arsenal, but it’s not like he would’ve been a risk-free purchase.
2. Alex and Anelka weren’t exiled and/or sold to make an example of them. They wanted to leave and made transfer requests. We decided not to try to keep the players that were clearly unhappy to be 3rd and 4th choice respectively and, to be honest, based on the years of faithful service they’ve given us it was probably the fairest thing to do.
3. Not really sure what to say about this. I fundamentally disagree with it, but there’s not really anything to ‘answer’.
4. These boys are (for the most part) currently not good enough to start for Chelsea. They will get there eventually, but they are either being loaned out or playing in the reserves to enable them to reach that level.
Also, we never actually received any punishment over the Kakuta thing – it was threatened, but never implemented.
5. He’s still one of our two best defenders and therefore he should still be playing whenever he’s fit and ready. The Wayne Bridge ‘incident’ wasn’t an incident anywhere except in WB’s head. JT did nothing wrong, but was unfairly castigated because some idiots wanted to sell more newspapers. The unsolicited tours thing was never resolved, but as far as I remember, there was no actual evidence that he’d been doing anything wrong and he’s yet to be found guilty of the Ferdinand thing. He hasn’t yet done anything to bring the club into disrepute – the media are, for the most part, making mountains out of molehills and we shouldn’t be holding that against John.
He doesn' have his players that is why he doesn't succeed?
That is what most fans are saying and I understand that a team that is two season’s removed from a double is not that good, I mean they gotta suck. I mean saying that he needs time to build his team is acceptable, but to say he is failing because he doesn’t have the right players is naive. I mean why does he get the big bucks to coach if it is dependent wholly on the players whether we can say he’s a good coach or not, that logic dictates then there should not be a coach, we should just get the best players and get great trainer and all is set, which we know is not the case. I feel as though AVB has failed us, yes he didn’t have the players, but come on, what players can operate optimally with poor man management, flawed tactics and immaturity to boot?
by GianfrancoZola on Feb 23, 2012 11:04 AM GMT reply actions
Not really
He doesn’t have the type of players required for the style of play they are implementing and that the Chelsea owner wants.
AVB has given all these players some time to try to adapt, and not all of them are cutting it. Simple as that. He was actually probably TOO generous, in some ways, to give some of these guys the time to work on fitting into the system or evaluate if they wanted to be on board. Everyone’s favorite Mourinho would have lobbed off those that didnt fit his plan sooner, most likely. People think they want Mou back, but if they are in favor of the current squad, I don’t think they’d be seeing much of it. Mou may be friendly with “the old guard”, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t make some tough business decisions almost immediately.
AVB prides himself on getting a team to behave like one… and he tried to get the current players on board. In fact, most of the players seemed on board early in the season. Then QPR happened and they had a shitfit and everyone started pointing fingers from then on out. Even the loss at ManU didn’t seem to phase many, and it was considered one of our better performances, for the second half at least. Do you really feel like AVB could cause all that stupidity amongst a team full of adults? Even a number of the players are ’fessing up that it is their individual mistakes on the field.
Ridiculous....
This is ridiculous …Everybody is blaming the senior team members… But how many of them played against Napoli that disastrous night…. Lampard? Terry? …
Frankly AVB just doesn’t have it… He is naive as well as arrogant – A dangerous combination considering he has been repeating the same tatcital mistakes every game…He doesn’t want to acknowledge his mistakes and learn either.. All he knows is 4-3-3 with speedy wingers on both flanks…No Plan B… I would dread going in to next season with this man…
What would you like to happen more? Replace the core of our team by bringing in players with a combined worthof say $60M-100M and then find out that AVB is the same ol AVB… Or spending about $15-20M to replace him now…. I would rather have some sort of stability in the team now and I would hate to see Terry and Lampard dumped along…. Someone needs to look at ManU to understand how the old guard can still work together with youngsters….
But...
The squad DOES need a major change in the summer! The squad should have been refreshe3d earlier (ideally following the double-winning season under Carlo) however it wasn’t and AVB (or the next manager if he goes) will have inherited that problem.
Given that the 60-100m needs spending anyway...
We may as well see if that’s the problem before sacking AVB. If it turns out that the manager is the problem, then we can replace him later.
At Utd the likes of Giggs and Scholes and previously Gary Neville are all willing to play a limited role for the team!
They play their limited roles without any complaint and always give their best when they do play. They are a great influence within the club!The old guard at Chelsea is different, they aren’t willing to accept reduced roles and influence and have become divisive within the club because they are not getting things their own way as they have always been used to! Add to that the fact that the senior players are nowhere near good enough to be the spine of a successful team any more!
by conorjmartin on Feb 24, 2012 6:21 PM GMT up reply actions
LastChanceAVB
I believe he should be given atleast one more season to turn things around let him buy players of his choice and let see… after all I am very pleased to see how good our reserves and specially youth team is doing !!
AVB and Emelano are buying the correct players for future… if he doesn’t do well there is always a chance we could get Guss or Jose back as both are willing to come back, have place in heart of players and fans and also have a desire to win…
I wish Jose continue for one more year with Madrid and beat the hell out of Barca before coming back to Chels to bring the holly-grill to SB for the first time
Should not replace the manager now. Not at the very least for another season.
I don’t usual post any comment but serious I think we ought to just take a look at where the club is heading. I challenge anyone out there to find us a manager who can get this current squad to win something. I am very sure there is NO ONE that can do that and this is because this current squad cannot last a whole season. It started showing two seasons ago with some Christmas slump now its just not working. Time for a change and its not the manager that should go.
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