The Fernando Torres Report - No.12 - 31 January 2012 - Swansea
The latest edition of The Fernando Torres Report is here! In this column, I offer my perspective on the £50m man and his team! Today, I look at yesterday's Premier League match against Swansea
My, but aren't we a fickle bunch? It's amazing how quickly some will turn against a player. After an FA Cup tie against Q.P.R. which featured a performance so anonymous I didn't feel compelled to write a report, Fernando Torres again started for Chelsea away to Swansea. I'm not going to dodge the issue here, Nando was abysmal last night. Not poor. Not just not good. Properly bad. Because of this, the arrow on the meter registering Torres' fan approval has gone from "He might just be turning it around" to "Sell him! He's the worst example of footballer I've ever seen" Is that change justified? I, for one, don't think so. Sure, his Chelsea career has been disappointing, and he was, as I said, abysmal against Swansea, but as far as I'm concerned, they're separate issues.
Really, though, I'm sure you're saying, what are the chances that this was an isolated poor game? I think there's a decent chance. Throughout his Chelsea career, Nando's form has correlated roughly with the form of his team. The only time it's not been perfectly true was during the first half of January, where Torres was our most influential player by a mile, despite our generally playing to a level I'd label "Just okay". I'll admit right now that, in the course of my duty as Official Apologist, I've created something of a double standard for myself. I have, at times, somewhat understated the percentage of Fernando's good performances which is tied to the overall team performance.
That makes it difficult for me to make my point in good faith, unless I correct that error. As I said earlier, Fernando's performance in any game is usually dependent on the overall team performance. A lot of the good things Fernando has done this season have been the result of good team play behind him. Not all, certainly, his form prior to Q.P.R. did exceed the level of his team mates, but most of the time, he plays as well as those around him do. That's neither an excuse or a criticism, it's a trait he shares with most players. It's also a trait he's always had. Is it any surprise that his form dipped as Liverpool's did?
It does, I guess, raise the question of whether Roman[, and let's not pretend Carlo had much to do with it,] knew what he was getting. It should have been as obvious to him, a self-professed student of the game, as it was to us that Nando isn't really a player capable of amazing individual efforts. He is[, or at least was,] a dangerous player, of course, but not the same type of player as Didier Drogba in his pomp. The type of player who can make a chance from absolutely nothing, and destroy the opposition in the process. In a sense, Torres is the goal poacher taken to another level. He needs more consistent service than we're used to, or even able, to provide.
Back to the match at hand, I do find the reaction somewhat overblown. Had Fernando been alone in being terrible, I'd be more understanding of the view. Unfortunately for fans of the easy story, he definitely wasn't. No player forward of Oriol Romeu put in a performance that was even remotely acceptable. Chelsea were just as abysmal as Fernando. The second half was better, as we all saw, but despite our more positive play, none of our front four could do much to capitalise on it. I think it says something about their performance that late sub Romelu Lukaku impressed the most of our forward players, despite neither scoring or having any great influence.
In short, I think it's slightly unfair to judge a player so harshly for a performance roughly up to that of the players around him. I understand that Fernando has been disappointing in his Chelsea career, but the level of anger and frustration I've seen since the match ended seems ridiculous to me. Even worse, some people are angry at Fernando himself. There is no excuse for that. Dislike the transfer, want him sold, want him to never play for us again, fine, that's you're opinion, but making it personal isn't cool. He hasn't done anything to hurt you personally.
Sure, he hasn't been what we expected this time last year, and perhaps it's getting to the point where it's not going to work out for him here. I don't think it's that he's not good any more, or that he's finished at the top level, the problem is that he's not suited to the style of play Chelsea have had in the Abramovich era, and truthfully, he was never going to be. There are two options for why we bought Nando. The first is that he was bought in the hope that we would have tuned our style of play to Torres' needs by now, which was always a pipe-dream. Without significant spending, there's no way we would have achieved that in so short a time. The other is that Roman is not as clever as he likes us to think he is, and he thought Fernando would begin the change himself, or simply never considered how he'd fit into our squad.
In conclusion, something isn't working for Nando here. Whether it's tactical, mental, or even physical, we shouldn't be blaming him. He's probably not the ideal striker for Chelsea right now, he's probably not in the best mental shape, and he's probably not as fit as he once was. These shouldn't be as big an issue as they seem to be for him right now. If our current system is the best we can do to accommodate his tactical and physical requirements, and AVB is motivating him to the best of his ability, then he's got to be on the way out. If not, then he deserves more time. How can we tell, though? We can look at how those players around him are playing. From the evidence we've seen recently, something is wrong there too. I'm not privy to the information available to the club, but at a guess, there's something wrong with the formation and tactics we've been using, or our players are unmotivated and disillusioned. I don't know what it is, but something needs to change. I'm not certain what it is, but I'm certain it's not the players, and certainly not Nando. It might be too late for him, but as long as he's a Chelsea player, we should support him. The same goes for any of our players, even Salomon Kalou.
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Perfect
It’s now not a real surprise because some have already guesses I did this but nonetheless:

Sorry Kevin, couldn’t resist ;)
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
At least one of the negative comments I get for this will be a joke! : )
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
We'll see
someone might find another way to say it if they really feel it. :cP
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:18 PM GMT up reply actions
They will
but I’ll call them boring and unoriginal! And then we’ll start throwing fistacuffs and they’ll insult my mommy!
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:20 PM GMT up reply actions
No they will tell you
you only defend Torres because he’s pretty and you are female because you have a female screenname
Being in the unknown faction has advantages, I smell
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Haha!
You have an excellent point. I could just declare myself of not having a gender because it is construct of society and then go and pull my sexism card out on all their asses! Funny how rampant that one can be, and how sensitive some folks are to other perceived prejudices while expressing it. Ahh, people… we’re all so funny, no matter how rational we want to be.
I'd understand if it was directly linked
but nobody has ever said “Torres played well because he has a lovely butt! OLOLOLO” … yeah. Maybe we’d see a “You only defend Luiz because he has that hair!” next?
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Heh
@ I find myself defending the more attractive players all the time@ Easy to do when all of my players are attractive!
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:46 PM GMT up reply actions
Sarcasm font fail!
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:46 PM GMT up reply actions
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder
and sometimes depending on the colour of the kit a player wears …
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I've noticed some players are less attractive after they sign for other clubs
Must be the shirt.
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:48 PM GMT up reply actions
Really I thought he was cuter then :cP
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 8:00 PM GMT up reply actions
As I said - it's not your face, your hair, your butt
it’s the club you play that makes you ugly (in the eye of the beholder)
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I can't imagine how much cuter
Mata would be in an Arsenal shirt :cP
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 8:05 PM GMT up reply actions
Red hobbit
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
Adorable red hobbit
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 8:09 PM GMT up reply actions
There was a player called Odvan
Who is ugly as hell and was pretty good at CB. Many said (jokingly, of course) that his good play was due to the fact that he scared the attackers with his face.
Now come on, you can’t deny it: many women never watched an entire football match but simply LOVE Torres because he’s “hawt”.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
Yes
but so do many men. Heck… half of Anfield’s straight male fanbase was ready to switch hit during his first year. And yes, even when he moved to Chelsea… you probably ought to believe that he has a fanbase of that nature there too.
Sure, Torres has more than the average fangirl, tumblr, livejournal, weird boy-band like base of fans… but that’s not so different from some of the other players perceived as good looking. I mean, CR7? I find him entirely unattractive, but he’s got one of the top followings of that sort.
In the end, if it makes fans of the sport, I don’t really take big issue with it. Everyone enters fandom for a sport somehow… some people just learn about it through individual players. I seem to recall a ton of guys getting quite into tennis when Anna Kournikova came along. ;) I also know a few American guys that are suddenly interested in the USWNT, courtesy of a certain Alex Morgan.
That's Honorary Sounder Alex Morgan..
…though it is all about Hope Solo. :P
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
Dude...No way..
…I mean Alex Morgan is hot. But Solo’s got it, did you see her all dolled up? She cleans up really well..I would not say no to that. Or as the saying goes, I wouldn’t kick her out of bed for eating crackers. /getofmylawn
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
I saw her on DWTS
(Using acronym to protect the innocent. I swear, I only ever watched it because of Julianne Hough. And the aforementioned wife. But I digress.)
Not impressed. Neither her looks, nor her lack of any coordination. But I suppose we shouldn’t expect goalies to be all that coordinated.
You watch DWTS? lol
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 2, 2012 12:32 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't watch it
I do watch SYTYCD though for the dancing, not the pretty people :cP
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 2, 2012 4:51 PM GMT up reply actions
Ha
It could even be the opposite… maybe his delish backend is preventing him from playing well. Funny enough, when he has a bad game, I at least get a benefit of it that some don’t… a nice view ;)
I try not to go after the whole argument that folks make about boy/girl stuff TOO much, because I do objectify the players quite a lot in jest. I guess I’ll have to lessen that behavior as too many people take it seriously. And then they’ll go comment on Dr. Eva, haha.
Good point on which I never thought of
it’s kind of contradictory to complain about fans commenting on Torres’ looks, but then, jump on that female doctor. You could also say: you have no hint or clue whatsoever how good she is at that
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
For what it's worth...
…I have no problem objectifying both Torres and Dr. Eva.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Well you don't, but some
surely have mentioned how annoying it is that female fans admire Torres’ looks while they praise how awesome that doctor is when seemingly there is no evidence either how good she is at her job so the awesomeness they’re referring to isn’t for her professionalism
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
For the record, I've never objectified Dr. Eva in any way even though that is what is being implied by you and alynne
Just felt you should know. Please refer to my comment below for some further clarifications…
The Nigerian Perspective!
OK I didn't wanna bring this up again but since you directly replied to my comment I add this as well
you have been mentioning Dr. Eva three times, you can search it yourself via your SBN profile. While there is nothing wrong mentioning she’s gorgeous and how much you like her, all your comments clearly refer to her looking and not to her professionalism, since we outside Cobham and Chelsea staff have not the slightest clue how good she is at her job. That is nothing more or less than what Alynne is doing
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I should clarify
you mentioned her more than 3 times, but 3 times clearly referring to her looks
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I see you misunderstood what I said.
I said “objectified”. Please look up the meaning. I never said I didn’t say she was gorgeous. I did, 3 times, as you’ve pointed out. I never mentioned a body part though like her butt, hips etc.
I repeat, I have NEVER OBJECTIFIED Dr. Eva.
The Nigerian Perspective!
I can't say for alynne for sure
but I never said you objectified her or anyone else, but merely you refer to her looks, and you like her because you think she’s pretty. I’m pretty sure all what Alynne does when she mentions Torres’ butt or mentioning he is handsome isn’t more than what you feel for Dr. Eva
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
And I should also add
when discussing about Torres in matches female fans (alynne included) do actually bring evidence of the actual performance of that player. Something that cannot said of you when you refer to Dr. Eva, because we really cannot judge her performance
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Hmm
Maybe this is a cultural gap or something, and because I am American, joking about body parts and stuff isn’t that huge a deal. Hell, in some countries it’s even worse than here.
At least I can joke about my “objectifications” and recognize how silly it is. While I surely don’t see it as being so offensive due to my background, maybe I’ll need to stop because others take it to heart and actually think it is a statement of something waaaaay bigger than intended.
Please refer to my comment below and in the other thread to clear up some misunderstandings
The Nigerian Perspective!
Yeah I got it now
maybe I was being too serious and if I offended you I’m sincerely sorry. But as human as I am, there are also topics I’m reacting sensitively to …
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Sincerely
I am apologizing that you felt that comment was directed at you. It wasn’t meant to be. It was a general comment on the community (and that of Chelsea fans and football fans at large). I had no idea you’d ever even mentioned Dr. Eva prior to today.
I think it's worth bearing in mind
That (as evidenced by the introduction thread) this is an incredibly diverse community. There are bound to be huge cultural differences between the upbringings of different posters and there will obviously be times when these may cause misunderstandings or offense.
The important thing to remember is that (at least as far as I have seen) nobody here sets out to cause offense and most would be incredibly apologetic if such offense was highlighted in a polite and courteous manner.
The problems appear to begin when somebody responds to unintentional offense by name-calling or retaliation.
I’ll grant that I haven’t been following this particular disagreement and can’t comment on how it began, but I think it would be best for everybody if you could metaphorically kiss and make up now :-)
So you're the peace guy?
Hippie. Look at the hair, should've known
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 PM GMT up reply actions
wow the cutting off of comments
is lame
The last bit says
should've known
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM GMT up reply actions
The sad part is that I didn't even misunderstand anyone.
I attended a British school and have American friends. I’m VERY comfortable with English and understand the differences between many cultures. I do blame myself for not being clearer though. At least, I’ve learned something today. :D
The Nigerian Perspective!
This is definitely true
I try to remember it and take it into account, but I probably misstep from time to time, as I’ll never really be able to understand anyone else’s backgrounds, nor they mine.
The comment I’d made above was really meant as a reflection on my own comments. Hope no one thinks that is meant as something on anyone else! I like the community here and appreciate its diversity! :)
Yeah but at least they can't do it like someone did it last time
post “pile of rubbish” as the first post in the whole thread
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
You did that!!!
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:20 PM GMT up reply actions
I'm trying to invent a new brand of running gags
like buyout clause or youtube clips … OK Kevin might not like it when I stalk and post this meme in every of his posts anew :P
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I know it's coming, though! : )
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Well I think I wasn't careful enough
because I really wanted this to be a surprise … I didn’t upload it elsewhere and waited for you to actually post a report. Pity. Next time I try to do better
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
But I know you wouldn't be malicious, so I wouldn't be...
…offended in any case.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
I wouldn't be?
Hehehe … true … but you generally write Torres reports only when the wave is high, not when the sea was calm. So posting those memes aren’t that far-fetched … they picture some of what we’ve seen … and what might come next
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Maybe I'm underestimating your ability to be a hater. ; )
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Woaaa me, a hater?
No never! I’m no Torres apologist I admit, and I said some nasty things when it’s about Torres, and I like to confuse people, but surely I’ve jumped over to “defend” Torres more than once :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Which is why I wouldn't take you seriously!
You’re not a hater, so your hate is ineffective.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Rationality is the bane of hate, and...
…rationality is never a bad thing. : D
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
You're a brave soul
to keep these up, haha ;)
Fernando Torres's Chelsea career killed his grandmother
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 7:28 PM GMT up reply actions
I see what you did there
It took me awhile. Despite being on my third cup of coffee.
Twitter says so
But didn’t read any report from a major media outlet.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
Naming conventions seem off, as well
I think… sometimes I get really messed up with other naming conventions.
However, if it did happen, it is great to see the number of people out there claiming that it is great she died, or that they wish it was him. God I love social media, sometimes.
Also..
some other suggestion that it happened 2 weeks ago. And that is it from the rumor mill for me today.
People are great
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
I know what will come next
“More excuses! He can’t really use that as an excuse! Frank Lampard played well after the death of his Mom, too! OLOLOLO” …
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
And Brett Favre
After his father died. Well, my grades took a dive when my dad was gone, so I guess everyone reacts differently.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
Favre's dad
was his football coach and mentor… he had reason to play well. I almost failed out of college when my dad passed away. Different strokes for different folks, is right.
Brett Favre also played through an enormity of things that your average sportsman wouldn’t… I think football was truly an escape for him, which is probably why he often appeared to have more fun than anyone playing it (except after an interception). Unfortunate for anyone to lose any family member, though.
Hooray for being young and having a complete family!
My condolences though.
5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL
I only got to see like for first 20 minutes or so
so I don’t have an opinion on his performance yesterday but I’m totally with you on hating a player just because he isn’t performing as well as we’d like or specifically picking on him if he was no worse than the others.
Official troll of WAGNH
Hating players of the team you actually support
is generally somewhat counterproductive. And no, hating isn’t criticizing
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I know of a lot of Gooners who act like they hate Theo or Arshavin or Ramsey
It makes me really made some of the stuff they say thinking it fair or “just criticism.”
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:28 PM GMT up reply actions
You can't be "vanilla" with your whole squad
When some of them are clearly underperforming. That simply doesn’t work anywhere.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
I''m not sure what you mean by "vanilla" but
I know underperforming warrants the ire of fans but there comes a point when it’s too harsh or the player is getting constantly scapegoated. And that’s not cool I think that’s what Kevin was saying.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:36 PM GMT up reply actions
Exactly, there comes a point where a player is unfairly singled out.
Everyone was poor yesterday, so it’s slightly unfair to make any long-term conclusions about it.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
€56 mi = screw the rest of the team, WHY DID WE BOUGHT YOU?
That’s how (most of) our minds work.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
Hence the irrationality of it.
Blame the management!
I like to think I’m trying to bring some rationality to the irrational game of football.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Similar to when Arshavin came on and then we conceded
it wasn’t all his fault there were a few players (Song and TV in particular) in between him and the goal when he made that attempted tackle but only he got the blame. That was messed up.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:42 PM GMT up reply actions
That's something way too common here in Brazil
I give a free pass to players who are still young and learning. But if you’re brought as a “solution”, you have to at least play this role. Something Torres is struggling at, whatever the reason is. And I don’t think we the fans have much power in hands to change something. I would never boo a player at a game, but I will criticize him when needed.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
I don't know describe the hate you're talking about.
I see similar stuff with Theo for instance as I see sometimes around here for Torres. I think it’s even harsher for Theo because he’s only like 21 or 22.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:33 PM GMT up reply actions
Criticism is rational
hatred is blind. Mad. Leashing out violently at other fans of the same team you support somewhat violently and discriminatory just because they like a player you dislike seems somewhat blind to me. That is hatred
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I meant irrational hatred (poorly) disguised as criticism
I don’t mean fans against fans I meant fans against a player.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 7:39 PM GMT up reply actions
But the fans vs. fans is caused by hatred fans vs. a player
it’s like smoke … at the source there is always fire
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I generally dislike some players on the squad though
Raul Meireles would certainly fall into that category. He’s a decent enough player, but he just strikes me as a giant douche. I really have a hard time liking the guy.
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 1, 2012 8:23 PM GMT via Android app up reply actions
Sort of like Sturridge.
I think he’s a great player, but as a person, I doubt I’d like him.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Srurridge looks like Ronaldo
Too much attitude and even I dislike him. If he was at Man u I would have for sure hated him.
Well there's a difference between hating a player cus he's not a pleasant person
and because he’s not very good sometimes.
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by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 9:28 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't have a hard time
Because I just flat out don’t like him. He plays like a giant douche too. Dives constantly, complains all the time, can be rather selfish. Mostly the same reason I don’t like C. Ronaldo, although admittedly he has gotten better (but still not enough for my liking)
by AmericanChelseaFans on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 PM GMT up reply actions
Torres seems like a good guy
But at present he’s a shite striker. That’s all I care about. A lot of non-Chelsea fans hate Drogba but he’s a class human being. Thing is, he’s also a class striker so they’d love him on their teams.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Is Drogba still class, though?
He’s nothing like as dangerous as he was as little as two years ago. He’s still good, but he really hasn’t been very good either this season. I don’t think either Drogba or Torres can lead the team, as it is now, into the future.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 10:22 PM GMT up reply actions
no Drogs is not the future of Chelsea
Nor can he consistently bring it. But he’s still a big game player, without him we’d likely be out of the Champs Lge. And at 34 he’s been better than 27 year old Torres.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Again, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think he's necessarily better.
I think they’re both on a similar level, quality-wise, but Drogba is much better-suited to the current Chelsea squad, and the way it plays.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:25 PM GMT up reply actions
fine.
Since I’m a Chelsea fan, that’s all I care about.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:52 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
And that's cool.
You have every right to your opinion.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:57 PM GMT up reply actions
Given that the team is set up to play to Drogba's style
Surely it is also better suited to Lukaku’s style of play,I think it is definitely worth giving him a run,he can’t do much worse than what we are currently getting!
I have to agree with you
The entire team was piss poor yesterday. It was a really ugly match, but I’m used to see those being solved by a spark of the star player or a lucky one. The lucky one is usually Kalou; the star is Drogba. In the last match, it was Torres, but he didn’t help his case either.
Blind rage towards players is usual in any place. If said player isn’t any good, supporters want his head. But if he does something to shut them up, he’ll get the deserved amount of praise. Deal with it; we’re mostly passionate and unracional when the subject is football.
1970 - 1984 - 2010
"Vamos FluzĂŁo, vamos ganhar
Eu sou do clube tantas vezes campeĂŁo!
Vim pra torcer, vim pra gritar
E por vocĂŞ a vida inteira vou cantar!"
He is playing okay
But the problem is his confidence. I don’t have a problem with most of his game but he is a striker who doesn’t want to shoot. He is either scared of an injury or another miss.
Despite all the subliminal and veiled references directed at me including the last line of this report, I'm still going to explain myself
My anger with the constant defence of Torres stems from the unfair criticism and hate directed at players that have contributed more than Torres. Players like Malouda (who scored 13 goals last season (Last season not two seasons ago) and was our second highest goal scorer), Lampard (a living, breathing Legend), Kalou (probably one of the more despised players but never complains), Mikel (who has done NOTHING wrong except “not pass the ball fast enough” which then results in stupid insults), Bosingwa (who was our best player at the start of the season) and Drogba (another living, breathing Legend).
These players have always played a particular way which has resulted in Chelsea winning trophies. Yet they are all somehow magically supposed to change to accommodate to Torres (While receiving an amazing amount of insults in the process and calls that they should be sold and moved on). The same arguments used to defend Torres could easily be used to defend any one of those players. While I agree that Torres is not entirely to blame, I still feel he could have done more.
My point is EVERY player should be treated equally. I’m not angry with Torres but rather angry with his supporters that insult other players that have contributed more than Torres in the same time period.
As for Alynne, you have ALWAYS mentioned how handsome Torres is and were the first person I’ve read on this blog that brought up his ass. It is not unreasonable to assume that is why you like him (since you never fail to refer to it)…
I have never objectified Dr. Eva and never will.
Thank you.
The Nigerian Perspective!
by Iced O on Feb 1, 2012 8:55 PM GMT reply actions 1 recs
Wow
Again… you are showing a lot of a guilty conscience or something here in believing so many of these comments are about you and you alone. I didn’t suggest that you said anything about Dr. Eva. I’ve said that others on here surely have commented on her… and yes, some of those are probably the same folks that are annoyed by fangirling of players.
I joke about looks and Torres’s butt a lot because I thought it was silly and sort of my sarcastic schtick about my fandom. But clearly you’ve elected to read only those comments and interpret them as the only reason I follow the sport or hope for the best of his career, (even at Chelsea where he’s surely put it to the test). I am sorry that those jokes have been construed as what I think of his performance. And I am sorry that you seem to take it as some strange discrimination of players of other ethnic backgrounds. You had insinuated in the other thread that females are defending Torres or people of certain ethnic backgrounds only because we find them attractive, but then when someone suggested that if that were true, hypothetically they could say the same of your defense of certain players based on their ethnic backgrounds, you got suspicious of why they’d take notice. Yet in your bio in the intro thread, you specifically mentioned this:
“However, what really sealed the deal was when Chelsea signed Mikel Obi in 2006. I was so glad a Nigerian had joined Chelsea and fully expected him to become a playmaking super star (Mourinho had other ideas). Therefore, I could probably say Mikel is my favourite player but really I don’t have any one I like more than the other although I do root for the Africans.”
*Yes, I read those bios because I’m genuinely interested in learning more about the fellow fans here, and I found your story interesting.
I gather that your sensitive about racism or prejudice based on ethnicity, but please understand also that you cannot get upset about that and in the same argument make claims about people based on gender and sexual preference.
Let’s all admit, this sort of stuff is getting especially out of hand. I simply was trying to point out that in your accusations of some fans, you actually exhibit the same behavior you were against… and as you are a smart person, surely that isn’t your actual intent. Also… I am not this perceived group of fans you are referring to that defend Torres and then slate another group of them… I don’t get where you are believing this is the case, but if there is evidence against me.. by all means, let me see and apologize for it. Please take up that argument with whomever that is, if that is your beef. And that is precisely the argument I was trying to make- defending one player by throwing others under the bus and then getting upset when others do the same for their favorites is simply continuing the cycle of the same behavior.
I should say that until recently, I’ve never regarded your comments as being hostile or anything, and I’ve even joked about your need to watch games so we win. Why is it suddenly that you feel the need to go on the attack? Could it be that it’s because there is some truth in my reaction to your comment the other day? Whatever… enough on this.
Hey guys
Y’all are good people, and I think it’d be better if we give community members the benefit of the doubt in terms of certain things. I think a lot of innocent comments are getting interpreted as attacks on one person or another when they aren’t meant to be, and then the little minor incidents snowball into something big.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 9:26 PM GMT up reply actions
I guess this applies for me as well
but I can’t help this leaves a sour taste in my stomach … :(
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I hear ya
but at the end of the day, we’re all fans of the same team and want them to do well, and we’re probably all good people. Sometimes we just disagree on things and it can’t be helped, and we may as well enjoy ourselves.
It’s the lawyer in you ;) Haha! (My family always says this of me, and that I love playing devil’s advocate too much).
No, not this thing
Sure we’re all fans and liking or not liking Fernando Torres doesn’t make us better or worse fans, or not fans at all, or supporting Chelsea more or less.
I meant that this thread leaves a sour taste in my stomach because it gives me the impression there’s a difference between a man saying “that gal is hot” and a woman saying “that guy is hot”.
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Ahh
but that is a bigger topic in the world left to fry, and is unfortunately not likely to change soon. It’s one of my issues with the FA’s approach on correctly going after racism, but forgetting some other important forms of discrimination and unsportsmanlike conduct.
Yeah, I know
therefore a way too heavy a topic to discuss it here, since political issues are banned from this blog (no I didn’t forget the rules) so I stay away from that. Though during the racism debates I had the impression you could discuss this way more seriously than on many other places of the internet, but this is a topic that divides too much I just keep it in the dark void though I’m seemingly upset
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
You'll probably make awesome advancements in it, though
in real life! It may not be directly in line with the type of law you do, but it’s cool when you have a job that allows you to work for the things you’re passionate about.
I still remain hopeful in a way
that I cannot give up just because I know I can’t change it alone … but I keep faith because if everyone felt back to lethargy we’d never achieve anything :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Right!
You can only do your part… and if everyone does theirs, big things can happen. :)
I'm not your babe Fernando!
Terrible Gaga reference, anyone?
You're not the only one
the day after Fernando Torres signed for Chelsea I heard this song in a shop and I couldn’t else but grin grin grin :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
That one's been done!
Get with the times DPeezy! JK :) That one is certainly more applicable in some super dramatic fashion interpretation. At least the part about minutes taking forever, hahaha.
It's been done...
But it’s also a good song; unlike the Gaga one. Normally I quite like her stuff, but that song is appalling :p
Total rip off of
Ace Of Base’s “Don’t Turn Around”… at least for a point in the song. I cannot hum Gaga’s without it turning into the other.
Torres’ fault?
Official troll of WAGNH
by Sabrina Dessipe on Feb 1, 2012 9:37 PM GMT up reply actions
This is the THIRD time this is happening
You are misunderstanding the above comment as being directed at you. Only the part that specifically mentions you is directed at you. If you reread it, it will become clear, I’m not accusing you of anything other than calling me a hypocrite. I’m sorry if I was not more clear. I can see where your misunderstanding came from. It’s this
Since I know you didn’t understand me, I’m going to ignore your above comment. For the record, I’m sorry for all the misunderstanding.
The Nigerian Perspective!
I don't see how he was being hypocritical
Torres deserves critiicism and gets it. Other players get flak but over the course of their careers have produced. Torres has been shite; that doesn’t make me a hater, it’s fairly obvious.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:03 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
It should be said that none of this article is directed at you or any specific member.
The last bits are directed at people who automatically assume a player sucks without taking into account the other circumstances. In the case of Torres, his struggles are at least partially because Chelsea isn’t, and really never has been, set up to make him shine. I’m not trying to say he’s great, or that he has been here, but that his struggles are as much a result of his being brought into a bad situation than any loss of quality. I also think much of the anger directed at him is from people’s own misplaced expectations and misplaced anger at the management for wasting so much money on him.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 10:18 PM GMT up reply actions
The reason I made the leap of logic that the last sentence was directed at me was because of the other stuff I was being accused of
I guess I was on the defensive. I now understand why I was accused in the first place. For the record, none of my comments is directed at any specific person unless I mention their name…
Sorry I made the initial assumption
The Nigerian Perspective!
It sounds like a good idea for everyone, myself included, to not assume comments...
…are directed at each other. I’m sorry if my article seemed directed at you or anyone else. : )
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 10:45 PM GMT up reply actions
No loss of quality, I'll give you that.
We already knew he sucked by the time he got here, unfortunately.
But as far as “other circumstances”…in the end, most fans (and rightly so) won’t really care WHY someone sucks; just that he does.
He’s gone 1000+ minutes without scoring. A number that by itself is meaningless…but it’s nice and round and ominous. A lamppost standing in the middle of the box could’ve scored more (see: Andy Carroll or even Edin Dzeko) in that time.
And I’m so very very tired of his apparent need for the people behind him to deliver him the scoring opportunities on a silver platter (as someone said earlier). It’s not like he never touches the ball.
We heard a bunch of nonsense about how Lampard or Terry are not fit for this new Chelsea. Yet they both seem to have done at least “ok” in it. Whether they’ve adapted to the game, or made the game adapt to them can be up for debate. Personally, either way, I don’t really care. But I want to see Torres do the same.
In the one game where he played “almost” like a false 9, that was great. Let’s do that more often, if that’s what it takes.
So tired of waiting for his luck, his skills, his karma, his whatever-he-needs to turn around. This is a losing position; it will never turn into a winner. Sell now; cut your losses and invest elsewhere. Don’t be left holding your dick, as you’re led into the slaughter.
BONG!
Alas
They didn’t sell him though. Part of me wanted them to, because it just doesn’t look like it’s going to work and it is becoming torture to watch him never score (good or bad performances or luck or whatever).
The other part of me doesn’t, because it’s stubborn and wants to believe it can be turned around… him and the team’s performances. I guess I am sort of afraid of both prospects that come from a sale; 1) he somehow flourishes elsewhere, even a tiny bit, and Chelsea come out looking a little silly, even if undeserved or 2) he ends up rotting somewhere and I’m left without a player I’ve enjoyed watching in the same regard I have liked watching other players that look sloppy as fahk when they play, but somehow manage to do awesome things (think my stupid Favre fascination… and seriously.. Torres on form is one of the least elegant looking players I’ve ever watched).
He’ll probably get offloaded in the summer, I imagine. What will be interesting to see is who is willing to pick up his wages… or maybe Chelsea have some ability to renegotiate his contract, or he can opt to take lower wages to encourage a move elsewhere? I dunno enough about how that all works.
No possible way
For Chelsea to come out looking any more silly from all this then we’ve already made ourselves look.
And honestly, people forget
As soon as you cut the rope, people will be able to move on.
I’ve seen it with Chris Sutton. Or Ambrosetti. I’ve seen it with Shevchenko. And I’m sure I’ll see it with Torres, too. Footnotes, all of them, in a larger narrative.
Agreed on that point, as well
That goes more with my desire to see a sale, and why I’ve commented in some spots that I think a change could do the team, and maybe the player, some good.
I will say this about some impressions I get about how folks view fandom, here and elsewhere: I gather that as a Chelsea supporter, some folks think I shouldn’t give a toss whether the player succeeds elsewhere, but I guess I’m not that kind of follower. I feel that way about others that have departed teams I’ve liked, as well. For Chelsea’s departures this year, I hope the best for them (maybe not their teams though, if they are ever on the other side of the pitch). I suppose I experience fandom more though individual players than through the entity, at times. Not always though.. I was born a Buckeye. :)
Chelsea's refusal to sell Torres will be our ultimate downfall...
The purchase of Torres has destroyed too many things. Torres WILL never flourish at Chelsea unless Chelsea changes all of it’s players to suit him and that is just the height of foolishness for a player that has only scored 5 goals. The problems Chelsea are suffering from now are directly related to him, no matter what you might think. Carlo would still be here if not for Torres, Chelsea would not have played the high line or pressing game if not for Torres etc etc
P.S: The above statement may be viewed as illogical.
The Nigerian Perspective!
I agree with Iced O
It seems a lot of these columns are becoming attacks on invisible straw men arguments that no one is actually making. Then anyone who disagrees is drawn into a tiring long-winded back and forth which leads nowhere. Torres has sucked overall, it’s not hard to tell … So that naturally leads to more scrutiny on his individual performances. Chelsea’s No. 9 has to score goals, that’s non-negotiable. I don’t need to be lectured to as far as what is or is not an appropriate reaction as a fan, particularly if my actual words are not even respnded to. I don’t think a member’s tenure on this blog automatically makes what they say more credible. This column has turned into a weekly excuse session from the standpoint of Torres’s mom. Yes I know it’s acknowledged that he was abysmal yesterday. Problem is, he’s been shite for the most part of his Chelsea career. Every promising moment is followed by a reversion to the shite mean. So obviously each mistake is magnified, since Torres has not earned any leash based on GOALS. Criticism from the fans is therefore logical, and isn’t hard to understand unless your head is completely in the sand.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
Thank you. I felt I was the only one that saw it this way.
I’m not accusing specific people on this blog of anything but rather fans that support Torres illogically (for the record that does not even include Kevin)
The Nigerian Perspective!
Word I think most fans feel the way you do
But don’t feel like writing whole columns about it. Graham and Stephen have rather openly stated how Torres has been crap. That’s objective too … A column defending Torres constantly while accusing strawmen of being non-objective is far more hypocritical than anything you’ve said.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
My feeling is that commenters who don't much like Torres are taking these posts as directed against them
My interpretation is that most of the people who Kevin’s talking to are not posting on the site, but thanks to there being a fairly potent Torres/anti-Torres war people are assuming it’s directed at them, which sparks a lot of angriness (which makes me :( ).
For what it’s worth, I think Kevin’s been over the top sometimes, but I agree almost entirely with the sentiment in this post. Furthermore, I think that since Torres is much more in the spotlight than, say, Kalou or Mikel (both players I like), it’s perfectly reasonable to have someone defend him. These columns are here because Torres gets significantly more of the blame than he really deserves, and I think that’s fine.
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 PM GMT up reply actions
(the columns are fine. God I should learn to write)
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 10:18 PM GMT up reply actions
And it should be noted, if you didn't like the column..
…they wouldn’t be on the front page. Am I the only one that thinks that peeps forget you’re the boss man around these parts?
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
Resistance is futile, you shall be assimilated.
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
I have nothing against the column itself
Which is meant to offer a counterpoint and elicit dialogue. That said, I do think it often makes the assumption that criticizing Torres in each week’s game is unfair/inappropriate b/c " " (fill in the blank). I think the majority of Torres critics are fed up w/ his body of worl at Chelsea and therefore each subsequent missed sitter/poor performance is compunded. Whoever plays CF for Chelsea has the spotlight on him, it’s part of the job. This columnist is the same person who responded to each of Drogba’s goals against Valencia w/ a comment about how it wasn’t a big deal and how Torres should get that service. So accusing others of being “haters” is a bit rich imo. Ultimately Torres needs to produce or gtfo. This is Chelsea FC not a rehab for shellshocked strikers.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:35 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
pls excuse the typos, typing on my phone
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:38 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
it shows the feeling this striker issue brings out
That comments (via phone) must be made immediately! Lol … UP BLUES!
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:49 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
To be honest, I don't think you've understood my column, this one in particular.
I’m not saying we should keep him around forever, and note that it’s getting close to the point where it’s not going to work out. I also think it has more to due with the fact that this isn’t the best place for him, rather than because he suddenly isn’t good any more. In my opinion, his long-term struggles here have made the mistakes in individual matches seem worse than they are. If you look at his time at Liverpool, he made mistakes similar to those he’s made here all the time. The difference is that he got a bunch of chances in every game, some of which he scored. Here, where the team isn’t set up to provide that kind of regular service, he only gets a few. I don’t think he should be getting as much criticism as he does for missing chances because he’s simply not getting the same amount of chances he needs to score regularly. I’m not trying to say that’s acceptable, but that it’s understandable. There may come a point soon where the situation becomes untenable, and he’s sold. I would accept that.
Basically, our disagreement comes down to whether we think his problems are the result of a decline in quality, or from being brought into a situation that doesn’t suit him. I happen to think this isn’t a team that looks capable of supporting his style of play. Therefore, I’m more frustrated with Roman and those who brought him in so expensively, since they should have known he wouldn’t thrive here.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:09 PM GMT up reply actions
your focus is on Torres
And whether Chelsea is the best place for him. Others are focused on Chelsea, and whether our no. 9 can kick a donut into the ocean. Perhaps you should’ve sent torres to a montessori school :)
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:58 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
My main focus is the fact that criticisms have veered into the personal.
I have no problem with discussion of his place in the team.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 2, 2012 12:04 AM GMT up reply actions
this is what i mentioned earlier, most of the people on this blog
who criticize Torres do so for football-related reasons. so it would be interesting to hear your response to those things (which get brought up constantly in game threads/articles) rather than simply refute the diatribes of morons outside the blog who only attack Torres personally.
also, there’s this" “In my opinion, his long-term struggles here have made the mistakes in individual matches seem worse than they are” …. are his long-term struggles not in fact composed of the collected individual mistakes in matches? you seem determined to prove these are separate issues, but i am not sure who is convinced by that argument.
But they are separate issues.
Yes, the individual mistakes add up to a long-term problem, but I don’t think it goes the other way. That is, I don’t believe a mistake should be considered worse because of the form of the player. Obviously, you do. Most people people tend to under-exaggerate the mistakes of a player who scores, and over-exaggerate the mistakes of a player who doesn’t. This leads to a situation where a scoring player can get a better reaction to making a horrible mistake than a non-scoring player gets for making a minor one. I don’t think it’s fair, but that’s just my opinion.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Begging for a clean slate for each new game is naive, at best
Torres does not perform in a vacuum, as much you’d like him to. His fluffed chances and mistakes over the last year have far outweighed his positive contributions. This is something that he has to overcome if he wants to avoid criticisms.
You cannot make everyone simply forget the broken promise of Torres and keep idealizing him with fresh new eyes.
Think of any other relationship. You break a promise for the first time, you are far more likely to be forgiven than if you break a promise for the hundredth time. You make your first few mistakes, you can recover easily. You make a mistake for the hundredth time, then it’s no longer so easy.
We’ve all suffered through the mistakes of Torres for umpteen times now. Patience has run out, so any new mistake will be more and more magnified.
true indeed
I don’t see why this is so hard to understand. No one here is saying that each mistake is so horrible in and of itself. Each subsequent mistake elicits more frustration b/c the body of work has no mitigating successes (read: GOALS) to balnce the many mistakes. The individual mistakes have added up and patience has worn thin. This is what I mean by strawman arguments: instead of addressing DPeezy’s or my points, all that’s addressed is a hollow point that no one here has made.
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 7:01 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Neither of you has understood what I wrote, clearly.
I’m not saying that he should be given a clean slate every match. I fully admit that the mistakes add up to history of failure. What I’m saying is, a mistake shouldn’t be taken as worse than it is because of that. A lot of Fernando’s mistakes aren’t nearly as bad as a lot of the stories about them, and comments here make them out to be. Yes, they make his overall time here worse, but they’re not all catastrophic misses.
The way I see it, your way of looking at it is like saying a guy who never takes out the trash forgetting his wife’s birthday is worse than a guy who showers his wife with gifts beating her. I know that’s an absurd version of the argument, but mistakes should be judged on their own merits.
To give a more real example, people had largely the same reaction to Torres not getting a clean shot on a too-high cross against Blackburn as they did to Lampard missing from a yard out around the same time. One of those misses is more understandable than the other, but the reaction, at the time and after, is the same, because one player has failed to score. That’s insanity to me.
Obviously, we’re not going to agree, so we should just drop this before this descends any further.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
So you also disagree with the concept of a yellow card for persistent fouling?
Or judging somebody in a court of law, taking into account his prior convictions and/or history?
Your example doesn’t work because the “mistakes” in those cases are different…and it’s not like we’re faulting Torres for failing to claim crosses or shielding the defensive line. But assuming the wife is a “constant”, her reaction to her man forgetting her birthday will be very different based on how often he takes the trash out or helps out around the house.
But the yellow is for persistent fouling, not the final foul.
That’s more similar to long-term criticism of consistent mistake, with which I take no issue. In the court example, the extended sentence doesn’t mean the offence has been judged more harshly.
As for my example, I’m not considering the wife’s point of view. I’m talking about how an outside person would view them.
Why should a stranger judge the less-bad mistake of a person who makes benign mistakes all the time as bad as the bad mistake of someone who’s normally a great person?
If you murdered someone, but were an upstanding citizen, you’d [rightly] get a longer sentence than the career criminal who’s stolen another car. Obviously, neither is good, but one is clearly worse. Just as Frank missing an empty net from a yard out is worse than Fernando missing a shot from a hard-to-control cross, even if they have different histories. That’s my point.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
you consistently say others didn't understand
What you wrote. Whose fault is that? In actuality it’s clear you didn’t understand what we wrote, and once again ignored the salient points to focus on an invisible straw argument. No one said that the mistakes are individually worse, just that they have compunded. Digest that please.
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 7:31 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Why do you keep saying straw man arguments?
I’m not arguing against hypotheticals. I’m arguing against the people, of whom there are many here, [If you want to go back and check the articles from the time, their comments are there.], who act more disgusted by Fernando missing a less-than-easy chance than by Frank missing from a yard out. That’s insane to me. When, at the time, I asked them why, I got the “history” argument in reply. That’s why I’ve tried to argue against it.
So, yes, people have said the mistakes are individually worse, and continue to operate on such logic. In fact, you said it yourself below. Digest that, please.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
if that's what you got from what I wrote below
It’s another in a long line of misunderstandings. And omce again you simply ignore the salient point, which is that the degree of the miss notwithstanding, ppl get more angry w/ each Torres miss b/c he has so many. There’s a logic to this that you will not see, and it has nothing to do with how bad each individual chance may or may not be. So let us part ways, much as Torres and a goal-scoring opportunity may pass each other in the night.
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 8:12 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Whose fault is it that he isnt understanding what you wrote?
;) Just saying… because I am cheeky like that.
It’s clear you guys will agree to disagree. Kevin will write the posts in whatever format he chooses, maybe taking into consideration your request or not, and you have the option of not reading it if you feel they don’t dig into the real problem or that he is unwilling to address things. You can also comment and let him know that is how you feel about his post, but this thread has gone back and forth between the both of you for awhile with the same statements in different words, and it is simple as this- you both disagree and you’re not going to change the other one’s mind. Not worth trying to.
the difference is
He’s only one person, whereas pple seem to “misunderstand” his point quite often. Ultimately, the entire defense of Torres seems to have engendered no support, besides the protective and somewhat gratuitous statements defending the columnist, written by a couple frequent commenters like yourself. I think that speaks to the strength of the “logic.” In fact I do comment on how I think the real issues of Torres critics are not addressed, and that’s why I persevered through this circular vortex of words.
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 8:18 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
My point is
claiming that its only the other person always misunderstanding is futile, at best. Because it is. The rest of the response was for the both of you.
And you had to go and say I am out to defend the columnist… a misunderstanding on your part then. I just think it is silly to make such a stink over his articles if you don’t like them. Why waste your time? I don’t actually agree with a number of the statements that Kevin makes in his reports. Often times, my comments here are in response to others, or on my own accord. You’ll notice my first comment was suggesting Kevin was brave to continue posting, lol. Had no statement defending him.
What is with all this “defense” and crap anyway. We’re all people posting here… if you ask me, everyone is getting much too wrapped up in themselves and their points, and getting all sensitive over bruised feelings. Myself included… only at least I can recognize it.
I know that's your opinion
But you don’t seem to have convinced anyone of its logic, despite acres of text. I think it’s fairly obvious that the mistakes of a non-scoring player will (rightfully) draw more criticism. B/c he’s not scoring goals to make up for it! So regardless of how debatably atrocious each mistake is, the end point is he has more mistakes than successes, which naturally leads to increased scrutiny from the fans.
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 7:05 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
You're right, Graham.
I do write mainly for those who aren’t members of the blog, or at least those who don’t post. I’m trying to get people to take a second look at something they think is one-dimensional. I’m not trying to create discord here, and I don’t like when it happens. I don’t try to single people out, but I can see how some comments might be taken that way. I also agree that I have been over-the-top at times, but this is the first time I’ve written regularly, so I’m still learning. Honestly, I’m still a little surprised you let me write here. : )
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 10:43 PM GMT up reply actions
I’ve always sort of interpreted the posts as a juxtaposition to the corporate media stuff. Clearly, this blog has authors with varying opinions, and I like that. It would be boring, and probably as a whole, less objective, if you all wrote from the same point of view.
I find I agree and disagree with all the authors at some point, as I am sure anyone does with my mini-novella posts here. :)
Well then in fairness
Wouldn’t it make sense to try a column more responsive to what actual posters are saying? That way the dialogue is not w/ an invisible “they” but relevant to actual Torres critics who have logical reasons for being frustrated w/ his performances? Not sarcastic, just a suggestion.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 10:54 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Articles do often express an opinion
and the Torres reports express Kevin’s opinion. You may or may not agree with them. If you feel the need to counter, you could write your own article – like in a good academic debate. I’m sure there would be a benefit for everyone
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Then I add a disclaimer ...
“I sincerely apologize for any offense this comment might have caused!” ;)
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I said nothing about whether a column should express an opinion
Look at my post. In response to the point that this column addresses the views of non-commenting Torres critics, I said why not try one that responds to visible, tangible critics on this blog? What’s wrong w/ my suggestion
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:12 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Maiev
You see what I mean? He DID interpret it as an attack and frankly I don’t blame him. I’d do the same.
The Nigerian Perspective!
haha
I took it as an attack on my comment but not me personally. But much like a Torres five-yard shot, I felt iit missed the mark.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Not really
If you could actually see me, you would see I was laughing my head off at all the silliness. However, do research your grammar more carefully to avoid confusion…
The Nigerian Perspective!
I sense it ...
the “may or may not” part wasn’t perfect. I should have used subjunctive II
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
It's much more difficult to attack the sane people here than the hordes of gremlins elsewhere
Most people here are fair to Nando… does that mean the attacks he’s getting from elsewhere should not be discussed?
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't mean attack the people
But rather the actual arguments. Or maybe some citations/quotes of what the"outside" pple are saying. I speak only for myself, but I think it’s sometimes hard to see the rationality of the Torres defense b/c it appears responsive only to strawmen attacks. I mean this as feedback, not a personal attack.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:26 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
I think Kevin quoting others wouldn't be such a bad idea
by Graham MacAree on Feb 1, 2012 11:28 PM GMT up reply actions
I'll definitely try to put more quotes in.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 PM GMT up reply actions
You might
be able to do it in a fashion like Graham did today with the AVB Criticisms post, if you’d prefer not to single folks out. On the other hand, being really specific about who made what comment could be beneficial in avoiding thinking it may be theirs or something.
Nothing's wrong
but this is Kevin’s column and he is a Torres apologist. He isn’t 100% impartial on this subject, nobody can be – but as the subtitle suggests he offers his perspective. I really don’t know how he could change that, just to please other readers. It wouldn’t be his opinion anymore
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
again
Pls read my post. I said nothing about him changing his opinion or the angle of the column. I simply said that he is defending against Torres critics who are not here, but it MAY be interesting to try an edition addressing Torres criticism manifest within this blog’s comments. A suggestion as feedback, not an attempt to legislate his opinion.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
I'm beginning to realise that some people will just fail to understand what some of us type. I've now learned to accept being misunderstood.
You should also accept it and just move on knowing that, at least, some people DO undertstand your point…
:-D
The Nigerian Perspective!
We're all failing to understand each other, I guess
is what this thread is a good example of. For one, I know that I struggle with some comments more than others, based on language and even just context. Even when we speak the same actual language, dialects and things, and well… just being human, can sometimes get in the way. :)
I will say, on the record, I think as not being a native English speaker, your English is quite good. Better than my own! I always say I’m not only NOT fluent in other languages, I’ve barely mastered my own ;)
Hell yeah
but as far this topic goes and judged by your comments I seem having understood everything the same way you did … so basically that’s why I was just thinking I was understanding everything just fine … maybe we both suck? Oh … :P
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
But it's more or less the same
what people say about Torres is more or less the same what people on others sites say, or what journos say when thy attack Torres. Is there such a big difference?
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
yes there is
Look at kevin’s own comments for validation. And graham’s as well.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:44 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
I still doubt it
but once the “new” format of the report is here, we’ll come back to this again … the internet never forgets
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I'm not trying to pretend I'm totally objective.
Part of the reason I don’t tailor my columns to criticisms here is that they’re often pretty reasoned, and when they’re not, they’re from people whose minds I’m unlikely to change. I also think using people’s comments is likely to make them think I’m singling them out. I don’t want to make people feel like I’m attacking them in a column where they don’t have the chance to respond officially.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:36 PM GMT up reply actions
I focus largely on the arguments I see elsewhere, but also to try to...
…get people here to look at things in a slightly different way. I also hope some users here might change their minds and discuss it elsewhere.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:13 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't think you've swayed a lot of opinions
But I do appreciate the effort. After all, you’re his Official Apologist
The Nigerian Perspective!
I know it's not likely, but, as the saying goes...
…I’d rather light a candle than curse the darkness. That is, I’d rather be the very last person in the world defending him, even if nobody wants to hear it.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:40 PM GMT up reply actions
and
As his mama, you should feel that way :). J/k j/k I couldn’t resist :) :)
by dojothecat on Feb 2, 2012 12:13 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Criticism is totally warranted for his poor performances-
Yes. It is the suggestion that everyone in favor of one player must be against others, that isn’t. This isn’t the first time that topic has even come up though.. it’s a general thing that happens from time to time here, and elsewhere. It happens… just wish it happened less.
I also feel the need to state that I was browsing on my phone for most of yesterday and today so could not reply to some comments
So some comments snowballed into something else.
The Nigerian Perspective!
At some point, the reasons for Nando's lack of scoring just sound hollow.
He has scored three league goals for Chelsea in a year. John Terry has scored more, and we certainly don’t design a team around him and give him service. I still want the best from him, but I’m not expecting greatness. Maybe goodness, at some point.
He’s drifting too far wide and takes 25 touches when he actually gets a chance in the box. Both of his PL goals this season were instinctive finishes. If he can somehow turn off his brain, he might score a few.
At least Arsenal are Arsenal!
This is fair
He is definitely not playing instinctively… or if that’s his instinct now, it’s terrible. I find few things as irritating as his seeming inability to try to strike on the first or second touch, anymore. He definitely seems to have some weird aversion to just shooting right now. Would like if that would stop, but, like you, I’m growing less hopeful.
He, and the team, might just need a chance. I stand by my argument that they were never really suited for one another, though. Not sure about others, but I don’t think a team should really have to be designed around a player… I just gathered that was going to be the idea when Roman moved to buy him. Seemed odd to me that he’d spend so much on someone that clearly didn’t suit the system. Maybe he thought Torres or the team would magically change to suit the other. No idea.
*Need a change
oops… two very different meanings can be made of that typo.
Part of his hesitation is, I think, related to the reaction he gets.
If he takes a chance and misses, it’s a scandal, and if he doesn’t, it’s a scandal. He just doesn’t get the same amount of chances as he did at Liverpool where he could miss without it being a huge issue. When he was successful, he could take a chance, knowing that another chance was sure to come along if he missed, but here, where he gets two or three legitimate chances per game, there’s much more pressure on him to score. In any situation, when you have ten chances to do something, there is far less pressure than if you only have three. It’s sort of the reason cup games are more nervous than league games, where you can, for most of the season, not worry about a specific result, since you have a lot of chances in the future.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:21 PM GMT up reply actions
He doesn't get as many chances, no...
but it is at times his fault, too. If this is the reason for hesitation (could well be, I haven’t any idea with him anymore), then he is missing the irony of it. Someone else said it here or in another post that he’ll catch some heat either way. He may as well try hard as fahk to shoot a lot of the time. At least if he does, and even if he still misses, he could say he’s tried both options… shooting all the time and probably missing the passes he should have made, and never shooting ever and trying to always pass. And neither works, lol.
Ideally, he could get some happy medium of both options above, and it would result in some goals, even if only a few.
I should say, I think he gets the same criticism either way in places like this, but...
…the media tends to be more critical of his misses than his poor performances. That is, a miss will be a headline, but hesitancy gets a fifth paragraph of a story. One will be more sensationalised, and read by more people.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:43 PM GMT up reply actions
2 or 3 legitimate chances per game?
That seems a bit optimistic.The entire team combined aren’t 2-3 chances a game at the minute!As for Torres I can remember 1 chance in the last 3 games!
by conorjmartin on Feb 2, 2012 12:00 PM GMT up reply actions
As for Roman
Rich people can be crazy because he can afford it. It’s like we as kids sometimes bought an expensive toy just because it looked attractive and afterwards we never really played with it. We thought that the toy is too good an when we start playing with it we will like it. That what Roman thought.
Which reminds me of a point I wanted to make before getting side tracked
Andy Carrol would have made more sense at Chelsea than Torres. This is because Carrol plays “the Chelsea way”. Carrol will simply have slotted into the current set-up at Chelsea.
However, Chelsea has had to adjust to accommodate Torres. Everyone in the club had to change. This is why Ancelloti was fired. He failed to make Torres work. AVB was brought in to change the team so that Torres would get better service. So Mata was bought and Modric and Pastore were chased. Players like Lampard and Mikel were accused of not passing the ball fast enough to accommodate to Torres’ runs hence they were benched and people with faster distribution were started like Romeu and Meireles. Everything at Chelsea has been about Torres an until he leaves nothing will change
The Nigerian Perspective!
But it's not like the entire team didn't benefit?
Mata, or Romeu have been “working” with Didier Drogba as well … actually both of them played well when Torres was benched before the Christmas period. It’s not entirely about Torres, and it should never be
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Unfortunately, it IS about Torres and will always be.
If not for Torres, were Mata and Romeu needed? Drogba has not played well because he keeps receiving strange through-balls from these players which he is expected (at his age) to chase down.
The Nigerian Perspective!
Drogba didn't play well last season either
and Mata and Romeu weren’t there. In fact, Drogba has played some of his best games this season (and scored goals) with Mata assisting him. He’s also receiving the benefit
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
agreed Drogba and Mata startesd combining well
And likely will again when Drogs returns from the AfCon and sends Torres back to the bench. Also, Drogba played through MALARIA last season.
by dojothecat on Feb 1, 2012 11:39 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Not really. if you look at it logically, Drogba would have started almost all our games if not for Torres.
Drogba plays best with Malouda, Anelka, Lampard, Essien and Mikel. And besides, Drogba scored 13 goals for us last season (I think). Hardly a failure in my opinion…
The Nigerian Perspective!
So we should play with Lampard, Malouda and Anelka all season along
or did we simply fail to bring in proper backups for them because in your eyes Mata isn’t half as good a replacement for Malouda? What’s your point?
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Sheesh, Maiev, don't take this the wrong way but you're REALLY aggresive
Some of my initial anger was because of you and your comments. I now realise, it’s because you don’t not speak English as a first language. I would like to make you understand that I do. I “think” in English. My first words as a child were English. Despite my being Nigerian, I’m VERY comfortable with English (I speak other languages but have to transalte them .
What’s my point? You take things too LITERALLY. You can’t see that someone may be joking, implying something else or actually saying more things than were directly written. I’m not trying to insult you but rather saying that sometimes be careful how you reply if you’re NOT SURE WHAT THE PERSON MEANS. This is not your fault and I’m not blaming you. I do hope you understand that and me.
As for your point, I wasn’t saying Malouda was better than Mata. He clearly isn’t
The Nigerian Perspective!
Darn it, the extra "not" in "you don't not speak..." should be ignored
Double negatives and all that
The Nigerian Perspective!
Fair enough
I’m not an English native speaker. Sorry for that. My English isn’t as good as yours, there is no point debating about that. I don’t think in English, maybe I do not think at all. I’d understand that you’re angry at me, very fair, because I am aggressive on this one and this is because I’m upset at some of your comments. You might not realize but some of what you said yesterday was fairly offensive as well. Now you say this is because I misunderstood you, because my English is bad and so on. Well, I understood the same as alynne did and she is a native English speaker as well as you are, so maybe it’s not only that I suck at English.
It’s difficult to grasp irony or sarcasm on the internet. That happens even if you’re a cunning linguist or talking in your native language as well. Therefore, there is the sarcasm tag on WAGNH, or the smileys. WIthout those signals, it’s difficult to grasp sometimes what you really mean, and the literal interpretation is often the most obvious one.
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I don't usually use smileys and the sarcasm tag instinctively
But I will try to from now onwards. I’m also still annoyed about some comments from both of you but have decided to let it slide. Remember I was accused of being a hypocrite and then objectifying a woman…
The Nigerian Perspective!
Yes, let's just agree that we disagree
(and I don’t mean the Torres-sucks issue)
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Chelsea chased LUKAKU because he would have fitted into the "Chelsea way"
Unfortunately for him, the team has changed to support Torres and now he’s going to struggle. Such a pity, but he’s young enough to adapt
The Nigerian Perspective!
I think Lukaku will be able to play from through balls or as a target man.
As clumsy and unrefined as some parts of his game are, he’s an absolute terror when chasing a through ball. Large mass and velocity creates quite a bit of momentum.
I think they can still play the "old way" or "Chelsea way"
They’ve shown some of that when Drogba has been on the field in some much needed wins. There’s no reason to believe that Lukaku can’t mimic his mentor’s performances, and also learn some other tricks. That is the big benefit of his playing understudy at the moment, rather than maybe being on loan (both have pros and cons, I think).
I am sure that we’ll probably even see some more of that when Drogba and Kalou return. AVB has even suggested already that he is looking forward to Drogba coming back and making competition for Lukaku and Torres, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Drogba in the starting 11… hopefully Lukaku can get some good cameos from those appearances as well, and maybe he’ll even earn himself a start or more.
LUKAKU can actually play both ways.
He’s actually here to learn the Drogba way, to make the best use of his physical assets.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:23 PM GMT up reply actions
I learn something new every day!
I haven’t seen enough of his performances.. .I’d assumed he was supposed to be “new Drogba”, haha.
(I should say this assumption was based on punditry I’ve seen or heard, since I’ve not anything of my own to base it on, other than hearing that Drogba was his idol or something like that.)
I think Stephen's mentioned it a few times.
I was surprised to learn it but he’s actually not so great at using his height and strength yet.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:45 PM GMT up reply actions
from what i've seen
he’s poor in the air and isn’t anywhere close to Drogba’s hold-up skills, touch, and passing. he’s just immense, is all. but then, he’s 18 (!) Drogba wasn’t DROGBA til he was 26-27. and as far as that goes, Drogba is not just powerful, he’s skillful, intelligent, and aggressive, as well as having tremendous ability in plucking balls out of the air (witness the buildup to his assist for Ramires vs. Valencia). hopefully Lukaku can learn from this. as it is, Lukaku is faster than Drogba ever was, and should benefit from through balls and good service. to distinguish the styles of play as so opposite is a little simplistic … good footballers should be able to adapt, strikers should be able to find space, play one-twos and get the ball in position to score. Torres has failed to adapt his game and that’s a knock on him, not something that can be simply excused away.
Though from the bits I'm seeing Lukaku now on the pitch,
it does look as if hes becoming stronger by the game physically.
What kills me is that people are making snap judgement's on Lakaku..
…and he’s 18, and really hasn’t had all that many minutes. Really I think this whole thread is giving me a headache…
You should see how crushed I get when I bag on Kaka….holy crap dude. You’d think I was insulting the Football Messiah.
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
Carrol wouldn't have suited Chelsea
If you think he is like Drogba I would like to disagree because Drogba is brilliant in holding the ball and distributing it to Lampard, Malouda and Anelka. Dogba is the kind of player who brings others in the game that is why Sturridge looks better playing with him. Carrol isn’t good in this department.
I agree with Carroll suiting Chelsea better
Carroll could have slotted into the team directly, and would have suited it considering we played in a manner that suited his strengths well. He would not have been a new Drogba by any means but he would have learned that way of play,since he’s just what,24? I was actually rooting for Carroll to come to the Bridge since he was in the Championship with Newcastle…but turns out,Torres who suits Pool’s play ends up at Chelsea and Carroll who suits our play ends up at Pool. The world was all fucked up last January 31st. And the constant Mikel/Kalou/Malouda bashing because they don’t play the ball into Torres is totally unjustified…agree with Iced O completely here. Mikel was practically crucified because he got caught on the ball in that Liverpool league game earlier this season,whereas Torres’ misses are just considered to be him taking steps to finally regaining his form. Can we work out a Carroll-Torres swap this summer? :P
by Avinash Mohan on Feb 2, 2012 8:09 PM GMT up reply actions
Suarez would have suited our team very well. Could have played him as a right forward.
Would of been very useful
Watch Torres as our goal is scored against Swansea...
Can be see in the replays. Right as Bosingwa is playing the ball in, as other players are poised, he is WALKING arms at sides, completely disinterested. The ball could’ve gone anywhere as we saw from the deflection but he’s already given up.
WEAK AS PISS
I know he’d played 90+ minutes and it’s a tiring game but for the money he collects every week, you’ve got to at least look like you’re trying.
I’ve run out of patience with this softcock. Send him packing. Completely spineless footballer.
Valid point about that point in the game
delivery could use some work.
^ This
Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart
Haha, off topic a bit...
But the look-like-you’re-trying reminded me of an ol’ baseball “trick”….when running the basepaths, be sure to run so that your hat falls off. Makes you look REALLY FAST!
LOL.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
by Kevin Kostka on Feb 1, 2012 11:58 PM GMT up reply actions
I'm glad all this misunderstanding happened in the first place because it has made me realise something
Not everyone here speaks English fluently and some of those that do assume that either others don’t speak it fluently or speak it as fluently as themselves (I am guilty of assuming everyone speaks fluent English).
Let’s all just not jump to conclusions and most importantly READ properly. If you’re unsure about a comment just ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions. We’ll all be better for it.
:-D
The Nigerian Perspective!
Just I want it be mentioned
I never assumed you weren’t fluent in English. In fact I expect everyone else on this blog to be more proficient in English than I do
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
IMO the performance was what tipped the scales to the boiling point.
Torres has had frustratingly poor performance after frustratingly poor performance. This was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I still believe that Torres will make a comeback, and in 2013 will be scoring goals. I will always disapointed when he shanks a shot from the top of the six, but that doesn’t mean he’s dead to me. Keep Calm and Cheer for Chelsea.
From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH
I almost want to get rid of Nando just to get this "will he, won't he" bullshit outta here.
That said, I sort of agree with you that we cant really blame him for all our scoring troubles. Here’s the thing though, is he part of the problem? Or the solution?
Oooh!
That sounds so chicken or the egg.
Right now, he isn’t looking much like the solution. In another time and another team, with whatever he seems to need to get himself going again… maybe. I suppose it really depends on what fans want from their attack, as well.
As of now, though, he is definitely part of the problem… most the team is, and he isn’t excluded of his share. There is an interesting argument that could be made for the general confidence level and performance by the team with different strikers in place. Even when Drogba isn’t putting goals in, the team seems to go out there usually looking to take on the world. Maybe the team also shares some anxiety about whether or not Torres will score? Will be interesting to see what happens when Drogba returns and probably resumes a role starting.
this is an interesting point.
“Even when Drogba isn’t putting goals in, the team seems to go out there usually looking to take on the world.”
+1
Well, who do you think strikes more fear into the opposing team?
Drogba may be over the hill (certainly on the downward slope), but I posit he is feared way more than Torres. And not just by Senderos.
All that in itself may not be worth much and you’re certainly not going to win the game based on fear alone…but it’s an advantage that Drogba has over Torres that we have exploited very well over the years.
True
But that is more about the other team’s reaction than the Chelsea squad. I mean, I suppose it could lead to the eventual growth in confidence, if they believe he’ll frighten the opposition. I figured it was more to do with some general confidence in Drogba’s goal-scoring abilities over Torres’s recently. Even though their stats are at a similar point (I think… I don’t recall the shots and SOTs and stuff- Torres may well be much worse there), the overall perception is that Torres is lacking confidence in that department, and Drogba very much isnt. It seems like the team buys that as well… and it very well could just be the case. Maybe Torres is “lacking confidence”… some say not, others say so. If so, I hope that gets taken care of elsewhere, because it isn’t being solved on the pitch on his part.
I've given up holding my breath.
I mean, if he improves, good on him, if he doesn’t, he can sit in the basket. Thats life.
5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL
exactly
it’s not about Torres. it’s about Chelsea’s striker scoring goals. whoever is playing that position better produce, no matter the name on the jersey.
True.
But, can I be blamed for the giant “meh” I utter everytime we talk about Torres?
5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL
Well ... you always have the option not to engage ... :D
I know we all have the option, but then again, many of us don’t take it …
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I understand where you're going...
Perhaps my growing dread for this Sunday’s game has blinded me into a state of ambivalence :P
5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL
I've given up on the thought of
hosting an SB/SB party.. Stamford Bridge and SuperBowl. I was going to try to get some of my friends to watch the Chelsea match and get into that football too, but I’m pretty sure I don’t want them to see this match. It would probably encourage them to glory hunt and like ManU, which I couldn’t accept. And I am certain that if Torres plays, there will be ample opportunity for them to give me shit for all my talk of his bum. :D Then again… he got pretty fired up against them last time… he’ll just produce the next bess miss of all time to cancel everything out ;)
As do I
Just not holding my breath on it! I remember being bummed to see this fixture was before the end of ACoN.
OR!
Maybe AVB surprises us and pulls a Blackburn-match (I think?) and puts Sturridge at CF. Stranger things have happened.
I doubt it.
There’s no one else to play on the right
Meant to imply a switch
Torres on the right… he did it before, not that it worked particularly well. Not saying this is the smartest of plans. He could also put Mata on the right, which has been done. Malouda could go on the left, or even Torres. Again… not that these are ideal line ups, but with those available to play, there aren’t too many of those anyhow.

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