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Around SBN: The MMA (After) Hour

The Chronicles of Charsenal: Episode 1

By our powers combined, we are Charsenal!

Several times this season, it's been noticed that Arsenal seem to have the pieces we've been missing at Chelsea. From this, it's been decided to merge the clubs! On Football Manager, anyway. I'll be playing the game and reporting on the results. The question is, who would we take from each club, what formation would we play, and who would we try to buy? Once we answer these questions, I'll create the merged club in the Football Manager 2012 editor. I'll try to make the database available somewhere, if you want to play it for yourself. The official squads for both teams and questions to be answered are after the jump.

Star-divide

20 Questions:

1: Where are we going to play? The Emirates, Stamford Bridge, or a new, neutral stadium?

Remember, revenue matters! If we choose a new stadium, what size should it be, and should it be covered?

[Right now, I'm favouring a new stadium. 80,000 sounds like a good number for seats, and since it's almost exactly halfway between The Emirates and Stamford Bridge, and it's fiction, we could call it Regent's Park Stadium.]

2: How rich are we?

Are we going to have enough money to go for anyone we like? What is our bank balance, transfer budget, and wage budget?

[I imagine fairly close to where we are now. Not City rich, not Spurs "poor."]

3: Who is our owner?

Are we sticking with Roman, the Arsenal owner, or someone invented?

[I like the idea that they're both bankrupt, dead, or in prison, and we're now owned by someone else, name to be decided.]

4: Which formation are we going to use?

4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, Something else? How are we going to play in that formation, or would we rather keep tactics up to each person playing the database?

[I'm thinking of leaving it to individual users who play the database]

5: How many season ticket holders do we have, and how much are tickets, match and season?

[I'm thinking 2/3-3/4 of the combination of both clubs' STs, since a lot would abandon the clubs IRL.]

6: Should we have a 20-, 19-, or 18-team Premier League?

20 teams, we'll get a team from the Championship, and from League 1 for the Championship and so on; 19 teams, we don't replace any teams; 18, we dump QPR into the Championship, and push a team down as in the 20-team proposal but reversed. [Alternately, we could just get rid of Q.P.R. entirely.]

[I'm leaning towards 20 teams, since it's easier to implement.]

7: How many leagues do we want to have?

The standard is down through the Blue Square Leagues, but we could do more or less as well.

[I'm thinking standard.]

8: Do we want to sim non-English leagues, and how many others?

We can have just England, or just the bigger leagues, European leagues, or all leagues. I'll set them as "View Only," since we'll only ever be working at Charsenal.

[This is probably another user option.]

9: What should our Away, 3rd, GK, GK Away, and GK 3rd kits be?

The Home kit will be blue and red stripes or hoops, since FM white sleeves doesn't allow them with white sleeves. Do we want blue or red sleeves? Note: the genuine kit would have white sleeves. [We could also have a purple kit with white sleeves.]

[I'm actually leaning toward the purple with white sleeves, purple shorts, and white socks, so we're not wearing Barcelona kits.]

10: Should I just remove the player clauses and buy backs, rather than trying to move them over?

I know it hurts the authenticity, but it's going to be a bitch to import them.

[I'm thinking so, just because they don't really matter in the game.]

11: Are we going to merge the histories of the two clubs or start fresh?

It'll be a bitch, but a more rewarding one.

[I'm thinking merge.]

12: Who are the clubs rivals?

Spuds of course, but which other clubs are going to dislike and be disliked by us?

[Spuds, West Ham, Pool, United, City, and Barcelona sounds like a good start to me.]

13: Are we going to merge the club legends lists?

On one hand, Zola and Henry never played for Charsenal, but it seems a disrespect to ignore them.

[This seems like a good idea to me]

14: Do we want Charsenal to be a fresh club, or a modified version of Chelsea or Arsenal?

In FM, I can either start from scratch and retire both clubs, or modify the entry for Chelsea or Arsenal, and retire the other.

[This is a technical question, and doesn't really matter. Fresh-made would be a bit more work, but not much.]

15: Who should we keep in the 25-man squad, reserves, and youths, from each team?

Chelsea: http://www.chelseafcweb.co.uk/Squad.php

Arsenal: http://www.arsenalfcweb.co.uk/Squad.php

Of course, add and subtract Cahill, Anelka, Alex, and any in or out for Arsenal. [Please, let me know who, if any have.]

[I could just merge them all, and let users decide.]

16: Who should we keep from the staffs, or should I just select the best and merge?

Staffs are, Assistants, Coaches, Scouts, and Physios. Dr. Eva has to stay, of course, and I'll edit her to be good enough if I have to!

[Users, again.]

17: Should we keep Wenger or AVB as Assistants, retire them, or let them take other jobs?

What should our manager be called? I don't want to cut them loose, both out of respect, and because they'll come back somewhere else. My preference is retirement.

[Retirement seems like a good idea. They both got huge settlements in the merger. : )]

18: Should we have a completely new board, or should we mix and match?

We could feature some WAGNH [and possibly TSF] users as board members.

[I like the idea of merging the Managers, Authors, etc. from the blogs, but could just merge the existing board members.]

19: Who is our captain?

JT seems like the obvious choice, but we can have anyone we like.

[JT captain, RVP vice-captain?]

20: What is the club's nickname?

We can't have The Blues or The Gunners any more, so we'll need a new one.

[I've got nothing for this at the moment.]

There we have it. Once we decide on these, I'll create the club and start playing! Maiev will be creating the badge, which will feature both the lion and cannon on a shield with red and blue halves. If you can think of anything else, let me know in the comments.

[The things I've left to the users will have to be decided by us for the game I'll be playing and writing reports from. They'll be left undecided in the undecided database.]

Poll
Which crest would we prefer for Charsenal? [Voting closes Friday]
Maiev's first option: Cannon above Lion [Shield]
1 votes
Maiev's second option: Lion above Cannon [Rectangular]
1 votes
Chelsea01's option: Lion firing the Cannon [Shield]
21 votes
Maiev's proposed option with newly-drawn Lion and Cannon [Shape TBD]
1 votes
Something completely different.
0 votes

24 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 258 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Suggestions (in no particular order):

1) New owner: would make sense. lets say Roman and the Arsenal guy were bankrupted and bought by some ruthless amoral parent who forced the two to sell their clubs and merge. And a rich owner.
2) New stadium: the Bridge is too small, and the Emirates is…-shudder-. Of course, it would have to be large enough to accompany our combined fan base. Say 80 000
3) Nickname: The Doubles.
4) Board: Why not mix WAGNH with TSF?
5) Just move the players over
6) Mix and match the staff
7) 18 Team league – who needs QPR >=)
8) Captain? JT obvs

5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL

by CanadianBlue on Jan 23, 2012 1:20 AM GMT reply actions  

I agree.

1: The owner idea is a good one, so that’ll be the story if others like it.
2: I was leaning towards a new stadium, and 80,000 sounds like a good number for Charsenal Stadium.
3: I don’t really like that nickname
4: I was thinking of it.
5: But who are we going to keep, and have in the 25-man squad, or should I leave it to the individual user?
6: Another one for the users?
7: I’d almost rather preserve the 20-team structure, since it wouldn’t require changing the nation rules in FM. It’s not difficult, but still.
8: I think he’d be the best candidate. JT captain, and RVP* vice-captain? [RVP is the Arsenal captain, right?]

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 1:32 AM GMT up reply actions  

Vermaelen should be the vice captain

RVp doesnt look like leaders and defenders are better captains.

by Archit Arya on Jan 23, 2012 1:20 PM GMT up reply actions  

Oh, and I'm not going to add Henry on loan. It was awesome, but seems slightly wasteful...

…given that we have to pare down the squad list anyway.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 1:33 AM GMT reply actions  

I'd like to see how this goes over with everyone else here.

I think it’d be fun.

1. Someone suggested Emirate Bridge I like that
2. I for one like the sustainable model
3 Make up a guy or Stan and Abramovich can be co-owners
4 433
5 Let’s not have the most expensive tickets in the league
6 I don’t really care if no one likes qpr we can dump them
7 standard # of leauges
8 ?
9 I don’t want us to look like barca
10 go for it
11 yes
12 Spurs ManU Liverpool Stoke Wolves who ever else
13 add them both
14 retire them both
15 keep Cech JT TV5 DL Kosc Sagna Santos Szcz Mata Ramires JW Song Oreo Studge RvP AOC Yennaris Miquel Bennyooooon and others……
16 Do what you want with the staff but I like Pat Rice can we keep him
17 You can be manager… AVB assistant and AW DoF or head scout guy or whatever or you could retire them
18 New board let’s get TSF guys in on this
19 I don’t know about having JT be it. What if he ends up being a convicted racist?
20 The Gunning Lions (yeah IDK)

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 1:39 AM GMT reply actions  

Arteta and Essien

The kids don’t count on the 25 right?

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 1:44 AM GMT up reply actions  

I'm a big Sabrina fan....

….but not an Arsenal fan. I don’t like this. If we had to adopt a red kit, or even a red and blue one, I think I’d become a chicken man.

by ososdeoro on Jan 23, 2012 4:52 AM GMT up reply actions  

Aww a fan?

The blue and red wasn’t even my idea. I figured some people wouldn’t think this was that cool an idea lol. It’s not real life though we can have a bit of fun with it.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 12:36 PM GMT up reply actions  

Fine...

….we’ll take Robin Van Persie. Merge complete.

by ososdeoro on Jan 23, 2012 4:03 PM GMT up reply actions  

lol That's not the spirit of the game Sir.

Honestly if my team were all fit I’d probably only take Mata from yours and maybe Oreo.

But I think it’s kinda cool to see how an Arsenal-Chelsea combo team would do.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 5:29 PM GMT up reply actions  

Really??

Gibbs over Cole, Koscielny over JT and DL,Ramsey over Ramires,Walcott over Sturridge.Are you kidding me??

by Archit Arya on Jan 23, 2012 6:00 PM GMT up reply actions  

Did I say that?

Pretty sure I included JT and DL Ramires in my list for the combo team.

If my team were all fit Gibbs and Ramsey are both on the bench. Ashley Cole is in decline and so is JT so Vermaelen is the better choice for me in the long term and Koscielny is not nearly as error-prone as he was in his first season here I wouldn’t take DL instead. Maybe I’d take Sturridge over Theo but the connection he has with RvP is pretty important imo.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 6:10 PM GMT up reply actions  

Your header

sounds like quite a contradiction :)

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 2:20 PM GMT up reply actions  

Coming soon: Library Tycoon.

Real world issues, like underfunding, and ill treatment of books!

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 1:57 AM GMT up reply actions   2 recs

Library simulator!

Play as a librarian and do his day in day out job in a 3D (Crysis 2) engine! Man that game will sell a lot of copies!

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:20 AM GMT up reply actions  

SOPA!

*blink

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:17 AM GMT up reply actions  

OK from the gaming communities I come from

“borrowing” a game, or “finding a game in the attic” is just another euphemism for … well … “downloading it and cracking it”, so to speak. I should have known this term isn’t known in English-speaking communities

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:57 AM GMT up reply actions  

Um...

…..isn’t a yacht sort of required too?

by ososdeoro on Jan 23, 2012 4:03 PM GMT up reply actions  

4) 4-2-3-1
6) 20 teams – We can’t get rid of QPR because otherwise we won’t be able to hammer them twice a season. I’d like to see West Ham as the team to come up for the same reason.
16) Just keep whoever is best at each position
17) Wenger clearly needs to be youth team coach. AVB could either coach the ressies or be assistant manager or something.

The players to keep obviously needs to be a wider discussion, but apart from that I don’t really know about the other things

by deg0ey on Jan 23, 2012 1:55 AM GMT reply actions  

#6

Twice because we were fortunate enough to draw them in the FA Cup :)

by ososdeoro on Jan 23, 2012 4:04 PM GMT up reply actions  

I could. I was thinking of playing a month per week, and reporting on that.

You guys could give advice about what I’m doing wrong.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 2:03 AM GMT up reply actions  

You can't sub on Arshavin for AOC

mostly because Arshavin is most definitely not going to be on this team!

What is that like 4 games a week?

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 2:06 AM GMT up reply actions  

Arsenal fan[s]!

Who out of Almunia, Diaby, Sagna, Mertesacker, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Rosicky, Arteta, Park, van Persie, Santos, Walcott, Song, Squillaci, Djourou, Fabianski, Arshavin, Gervinho, Gibbs, Chamakh, and Benayoun do you think is worth keeping? [I’ve not included u-21s, who are free, squad-wise.] Also, are any of them home-grown, and if so, which?

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 2:44 AM GMT reply actions  

Chelsea fan response

I kind of like Arteta, and despite all those flubs last year Koscielny has been very good this year. I liked Chamakh last season until he decided he was tired and sat out a month. And Yossi is ours, of course.

by ososdeoro on Jan 23, 2012 4:08 PM GMT up reply actions  

My take:

Sagna, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Arteta, van Persie, and Song. I like Santos a lot too, but Cole’s still better. I’m also a Gervinho fan, but, you know, Mata. I believe Song is HG, but I’d have to look.

WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY

I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.

Twitter: Brohan_Cruyff

by Thomas Wachtel on Jan 23, 2012 10:00 PM GMT up reply actions  

How does home grown factor into this?

Song was 19 when he signed for us. Isn’t home grown when a player players 3 years in England before his 21st? If so he’s not. Djourou is home grown though as are Theo and Gibbs.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 10:15 PM GMT up reply actions  

Song is home grown.

Actually, home grown isn’t really a problem for the combined squad.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:15 PM GMT up reply actions  

Players-

Goalies- Cech, Sczcesney, Hilario
Defense- Mertesacker, Vermaelen, Ivanovic, Terry, Cole, Koscielney, Sagna, Cahill
Midfield- Lampard, Romeu, Wilshire, Arteta, Essien, Song, Ramires, Rosicky
Forwards- Van Persie, Mata, Torres, Gervinho, Sturridge, Drogba

This would be my first team, youth/reserves coming soon

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 2:45 AM GMT reply actions  

Great, saved my time...

Although do Lukaku, Miyachi, Park, Oxlaide-Chamberlain ect. count as youth/reserves?

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 2:50 AM GMT up reply actions  

Rivals

Is it possible to have barcelona as a club rival? Both teams have had some shady losses to them in the CL… plus I hate barcelona. I’ve never played FM so i don’t know the rules

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 2:47 AM GMT reply actions  

The username change

the combination of a team I can’t support with one I do?!? Too much for me tonight!

by alynne4307 on Jan 23, 2012 2:59 AM GMT reply actions  

Oh jeez, Kevin is Mbpx???

Everything makes so much more sense now….

by Sounders4life on Jan 23, 2012 3:32 AM GMT up reply actions  

Which is why I changed it!

Some people would call me Kevin, and some mpbx, and a bunch of people were confused.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 3:55 AM GMT up reply actions  

Mpbx, My apologizes haha

And yea, Mr. Author, it’s a good thing :)

by Sounders4life on Jan 23, 2012 4:22 AM GMT up reply actions  

No, your not.

At least not as far as the name change goes. Anything else, I can’t speak for. : )

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 6:05 AM GMT up reply actions  

Er. ...you're not.*

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 6:19 AM GMT up reply actions  

Wait...

Does this mean that there’s a Manchester Cited? Or an Everpool?

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 3:06 AM GMT reply actions  

No, they hate each other too much.

Not that there isn’t a strong rivalry with Arsenal, but it’s not on the same level as those two.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 3:23 AM GMT up reply actions  

I can vouch for that.

I don’t hate Chelsea that much. But I wouldn’t piss on Tottenham if they were on fire.

WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY

I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.

Twitter: Brohan_Cruyff

by Thomas Wachtel on Jan 23, 2012 10:02 PM GMT up reply actions  

To be honest, if both our clubs slipped into decline, and Spurs keep up their progress...

…I’d have no qualms about joining up to take them down. Not that it would ever happen, mind, but I really don’t have any ill-feeling to Arsenal.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:19 PM GMT up reply actions  

Combine to fry some chickens!

It should be in the Break in Case of Emergency box. Should the unthinkable happen we have to take them down. After normal order is restored we go our separate ways again.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 11:23 PM GMT up reply actions  

I don't like that they boo Ashley

At this point it’s beyond ridiculous. Aside from that I quite like Arsenal.

by Culain on Jan 24, 2012 2:22 AM GMT up reply actions  

A good nickname is going to be hard

1) New Stadium. I say we park it squarely in Spurs territory just to piss them off. :)
12) I don’t really want City as a rival. I mean sure, I despise all their players, but not the team.
18) I love the idea of board members as blog members.

GK – Cech, Szczesny, Almunia
Def – Ivan, JT, Luiz, Cole, Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Sagna
MF – Essien, Romeu, McEachran, Ramires, Mata, Song, Wilshere, Ramsey, Lamps
F – RVP, Torres, Sturridge, Kalou (you ALWAYS need a Kalou), Walcott (two Kalous are better than 1), Lukaku

by Culain on Jan 23, 2012 3:21 AM GMT reply actions  

My Squad (Please forgive spelling of names)

GK – Cech, Szczesny, Almunia (Courtois counts as youth in this case, I take it?)
Def – Cole, Ivan, Luiz, Vermaelen, Sagna, Terry, Gibbs, Koscielny
Mid – Essien, Romeu, Wilshire, Ramires, Song, Ramsey, Arteta, McEachran
Fwd – Mata, RVP, Torres, Sturridge, Walcott, LUKAKU

by Sounders4life on Jan 23, 2012 3:41 AM GMT reply actions  

I have a provisional 25-man squad, which doesn't count U-21s.

Home-grown:
[Chelsea:] Terry, Cole, Lampard, and Sturridge.
[Arsenal:] Gibbs, Djourou, Walcott, Song.

You could also have Cahill, rather than Djourou, but I figured we wouldn’t have bought Cahill in this scenario. I can buy him and sell someone else, though.

Other:
[Chelsea:] Cech, David Luiz, Ivanovic, Mikel, Meireles, Ramires, Essien, Mata, Torres. [Arsenal:] Fabianski, Mertesacker, Vermaelen, Sagna, Arteta, Rosicky, Gervinho, van Persie.

I picked Fabianski for third keeper, but any of Almunia, Mannone, Arsebadger, or Hilario could go in. I also didn’t pick Drogba, because I figured there was enough in attack, I had an extra player to get rid of, and he’s the oldest.

Players not in the squad:
[Chelsea:] Drogba, Malouda, Bosingwa, Kalou, Arsebadger, Cahill, Alex, Hilario. [Arsenal:] Almunia, Diaby, Koscielny, Park, Santos, Squillaci, Arshavin, Chamakh, Benayoun.

As I said above, I haven’t included any of the U-21s, like Josh, LUKAKU, AOC, or Wilshere. I also haven’t included loaned players. If anyone can convince me to change something, I will, but I think that’s a good mix. I had to try to strike a good balance of depth and quality. I’m sure some of the players I’ve cut are better than some I’ve left in, but that’s a product of the squad rules.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 3:49 AM GMT reply actions  

Who is...

Arsebadger? Also I think Koscielny is better than Mertesacker…

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 12:20 PM GMT up reply actions  

Nope, he's U-21 for the first season at least.

Also, I had the idea that Koscielny wasn’t particularly loved at Arsenal. That’s wrong I guess, but there’s no problem in swapping them.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:21 PM GMT up reply actions  

Yeah Koscielny is pretty universally liked at Arsenal now

most have put “The Incident” behind us, he’s come good.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 PM GMT up reply actions  

I love this idea.

1. I like the idea of a new stadium. Emirates Bridge was suggested and I like that. 70,000 to 80,000 sounds good to me.
2. If we are going to have the best players from both teams we are going to need to be rich. I like the idea of keeping Chelsea’s current wealth.
3. Mikhail Prokhorov is the only mad Russian I can back for the position of New Mad Russian.
4. I would love to see a 4-3-1-2
5. I like what you already have proposed.
6. 20
7. Standard
8. I’ve never played FM so I’m not sure.
9. My favorite jersey in all of the EPL is Arsenal’s 3rd. The yellow and brown.
10. No opinion.
11. Merge.
12. Spuds, West Ham, Pool, Man U and C
13. Merge
14. Fresh made I suppose.
15. Will have to think about it. I know from Arsenal I absolutely want RvP, Vermaelen, Ramsey, Wilshere, and Gervinho
16. Pick the best I suppose.
17. Retire.
18, WAGNH and TSF merge is the best
19. Alternating between JT and RvP
20. No clue.

by Kjell on Jan 23, 2012 3:50 AM GMT reply actions  

How do you embed pictures?

I made a patch but don’t know how…

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 4:05 AM GMT reply actions  

If you upload it somewhere, you can link to it using the tree button below.

It’s the last one between the subject and comment.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 4:24 AM GMT up reply actions  

Patch

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 4:37 AM GMT up reply actions  

Here it is.

Its pretty sloppy so i can fix it up if you want, but a nickname would go on the bottom in cursive

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 4:48 AM GMT up reply actions  

That's not bad.

Maiev’s doing one too, but that’s pretty much how I pictured it. Thanks!

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 4:52 AM GMT up reply actions  

I think the footballs and roses from our badge are unnecessary.

I’d do a slightly-darker blue on the Chelsea side, though you might have to make the lion darker too. The blue edges should probably another colour, like black or dark purple.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 4:56 AM GMT up reply actions  

ill scrap the flowers

and if the kits are going to be purple ill replace the blue piping with purple, and lighten/darken the lion/background

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 5:00 AM GMT up reply actions  

You could probably do with just "FC" rather than "F.C."

I think that looks cleaner on badges.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 5:02 AM GMT up reply actions  

ill fix it up and make changes tomorrow

but until then….. Sleep!

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 5:05 AM GMT up reply actions  

Well if you wanna do it

I’ll hold myself back, no problem. But don’t expect me not to provide constructive criticism – the figures aren’t cut out properly, and the flowers and balls are resized too much. Did you do it in a vector program (a ala Corel draw) or converted a pixel image into vectors? Don’t do that. It looks spoiled

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:39 AM GMT up reply actions  

This is excellent

My only answer (for now) is about rivals: Spuds, Manure, Liverpool, West Ham, QPHahaha, Barcelona. Can’t think of any other continental teams that we have any sort of feelings about.

by Al Benson on Jan 23, 2012 4:13 AM GMT reply actions  

On AVB and Arsene

Arsene- Head of youth football
ABV- Reserve Coach/ Interview Manager

Nickname- The Londoners? The Chars? The Liongunners?

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 4:20 AM GMT reply actions  

This is pretty gross

Why don’t we just buy Robin van Persie and Alex Song and call it good

by Graham MacAree on Jan 23, 2012 5:19 AM GMT reply actions   1 recs

Ah, that's the problem!

My tongue-in-cheek detector failed yesterday, and I haven’t been able to replace it yet. : )

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:22 PM GMT up reply actions  

It's a whole lot of effort, but I guess whatever floats your boat

a) Chelsea in FM are a cakewalk even with the “default” squad. If you really want to “merge” it with the Arse, just buy RvP. Or, hell, since you’re clearly not averse to it, use the editor and put him at Chelsea.
b) The thought of merging anything Chelsea with anything Arsenal rankles a bit.

by DPeezy on Jan 23, 2012 5:21 AM GMT reply actions  

I can see the future.

United and City are teaming up against Charsenal. It’ll be called Man-chest/ United City/ Men United.

by Gautam Cfc on Jan 23, 2012 5:59 AM GMT reply actions  

Man United?

Men United? Hell there is an awful meme about that out there! I don’t wanna post that – it’s erm … too much for the regular audience … ?

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:21 AM GMT up reply actions  

Guys I need FM tips

Regular FIFAer but tried fm and gt tired in a minute

by RamStamford on Jan 23, 2012 10:03 AM GMT via mobile reply actions  

They are very different games. FM is for those people who prefer manager mode...

…more in depth, and without having to play the games.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:14 AM GMT up reply actions  

FM is more a game for people who used to play

strategy games but are tired of the usual WWII and medieval settings :P

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:31 AM GMT up reply actions  

I am a manager mode fan

I got bored watching the game in FM
Also if you have some online manual please let me know @iamRama on twitter
Will consider it a huge favor….Thanks

by RamStamford on Jan 23, 2012 4:37 PM GMT up reply actions  

club name

Charsenal tilts more towards Arsenal than Chelsea. How about Chelsenal?

by Uchiha Sasuke on Jan 23, 2012 10:19 AM GMT reply actions  

I have a first version of the Charsenal database ready, and it works.

I haven’t gone very far, but everything seems to be working. The only glitch I’ve found so far is that we have to have a random chairman, since it won’t recognise Graham as chairman, only as a director.

Otherwise, I’ve used everything as it’s listed in the article for now. I think it’s good as is. Once I find a place to upload it, I’ll post the link so the FM players here can test it if they like. I use FM 2012, so you’ll have to upgrade or make your own if you want to use an older version. You can use any tactic, formation, squad, or anything that you like.

Give me feedback if you do download it and play, and I’ll consider making changes.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:25 AM GMT reply actions  

Wouldn't Graham be CEO anyway

For Chelsea, Graham = Ron Gourlay, whilst Bruce Buck is someone else? Don’t forget, Bruce is a lawyer :D

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:35 AM GMT up reply actions  

I just made the six WAGNH and TSF Managers and Authors with their actual names shown...

…directors. It’s Graham, Stephen, Me, and the three from The Short Fuse, whose names I really should know.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:38 AM GMT up reply actions  

Hehe did you (or Sabrina, or anyone else)

actually ask the TSF authours and managers if they wanna participate? ;)

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:42 AM GMT up reply actions  

Directors?

I mean we have the board collectively, you have the directors (among whom one is CEO) and the chairman

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:49 AM GMT up reply actions  

In the game, you can set people to just "director."

The chairman is separate, and you can make one a Director of Football if you want.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:51 AM GMT up reply actions  

Maybe this is because Bright Future

is a German developer … hehehe … and German corporations aren’t organized like English or American ones … gnahaha

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:54 AM GMT up reply actions  

You can download the .dbc file from Google Documents...

here. To use it, you put it in C: > Users > [Your Computer User Name] > Documents > Sports Interactive > Football Manager 2012 > editor data. You can then either check it over in the editor or just load it in the game. I hope you enjoy it, and give me feedback!

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:36 AM GMT up reply actions   1 recs

That page is not available,

can I find the file anywhere else? Thanks.

by grimerik on Feb 1, 2012 12:55 PM GMT up reply actions  

Before I go through the comments individually

it seems I missed most of the fun after I went asleep yesterday. Time zones are just ridiculous. I stayed up till the middle of the night yesterday (today, to be precise) and still missed all the fun. Like in the gamethreads/after-game discussions in CL games which are late in the evening for me (CL games are scheduled CET … :P). Now I’m sad. Where’s my corner … :P

So before I go on-topic some slightly OT-stuff

1) @Kevin: now that I know your real surname, could I also call you KK in case I become too lazy to write out “Kevin”?

2) Do we still need to design the Charsenal crest? I’d like to do that … and I can imagine some ways to combine the Arsenal gun and the Chelsea lion and combine both the shield and circle form of both crests. I’d like to suggest I do a couple of examples, put up a fanpost (or Kevin edits them here) and we vote the best one!

3) I can help out with designing the shirts, too … maybe there is a shirt design simulator out there which would make it easier, but I can easily get a CC-shirt 3D model (or do one myself) and color/texture it. I’m so specialist in that though, so if anyone else volunteers who can perform that task better – I won’t cut in line

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:34 AM GMT reply actions  

Oh I just see someone did a crest already

so I will hold myself back. My sincere apologies

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:37 AM GMT up reply actions  

1) Go for it. Call me what you like.
2) The crest posted is basically what I was looking for, but if you to design something else, you should, since I just went for the obvious and basic lame design! : )
3) I already designed the other kits, but they’re not anything really fun, so they could be improved, probably. For the away, I did the Arsenal away pattern in this year’s Chelsea away colours, and the Chelsea pattern in Arsenal colours for the third. The Home GK is a two-tone green design, the away is two-tone orange, and the third is grey with dark grey pinstripes. The third kits are kind of unnecessary, since the away kits will barely ever be used, since the home ones are purple and green, which only a few teams use.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:43 AM GMT up reply actions  

If I as to design a crest

that’ll basically mean either mine or Chelsea01’s efforts will be undermined. That’s not really nice ;) But yeah I think I’d do something nonetheless because I can’t restrain myself. I wanted to do a Hazard meme, too :D

Did you do just a basic 2D design for the FM game, or what did you do? I don’t own any FM game so I can’t check your database I’m sorry … I thought more of a graphical showoff. And HAHA!!! I just had a flash. I could emulate Fernando Torres’ bodyshape and put a Charsenal shirt on him … or did you all just decide to throw him out of Charsenal?!

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 10:53 AM GMT up reply actions  

Actually they just have set patterns to choose from, and they put it on the little 3D models...

…in the game. You just pick the design and colours, and the games does the rest for you.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM GMT up reply actions  

So me doing a closeup of one Charsenal players

with our new kit would be still a welcome addition?

Well If I ever come up with it, that is … :D

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:02 AM GMT up reply actions  

Well, the design is basically Arsenal's but in purple.

It seems like it would be easier to swap the colour than the entire shirt.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:19 AM GMT up reply actions  

If I have to pin the shirt via cloth simulation

on a reshaped body slightly resembling to Torres’ body it doesn’t really matter … I have to recolour the complete thing :(

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:23 AM GMT up reply actions  

That's why I won't come up with any representable results very soon

BUT I don’t think we need to hurry. I’ll do some crests today and further we shall see

It’ll definitively help if you could upload your designs as pictures here since I can’t do anything with the database you provided :)

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 AM GMT up reply actions  

I was thinking of some of the

promo shots with Torres early this season when he promoted our kits and training kits

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:46 AM GMT up reply actions  

I'm hoping it's a continuation of the...

…link saying “Hazard signs” linking to road hazard signs.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:00 AM GMT up reply actions  

Oh not really ...

It’s more about the wall of text, and his buyout clause … :(
Sorry to disappoint

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:01 AM GMT up reply actions  

That's what I thought, so no disappointment here

Although you could do both and do a sign that says “Warning: 33M buyout” or perhaps something wittier

by Al Benson on Jan 23, 2012 11:59 AM GMT up reply actions  

That's not bad an idea!

I’ll go! oh and I can even post them in the resurrected wallpaper thread :P

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 12:00 PM GMT up reply actions  

I only had to play overseer during an exam

so nothing serious … it’s perfect for everyone if an exam overseer just falls asleep

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 11:45 AM GMT up reply actions  

Maybe you're a lot more physical

than me and I’m so fragile … you are like Didier Drogba to bulldoze through your way and my constitution is like Fernando Torres in need of coddling

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 12:02 PM GMT up reply actions   1 recs

This is like the early Hellblazer plotline

where John Constantine is fighting some hooligans that a demonic presence has merged into one ten-armed hooligan fighting machine, and, to defeat the hooligan monster, he merely points out that they sport both an arsenal and a chelsea tattoo, and he asks them who they support on saturdays, and the monster fights itself and tears itself in half

oh, to be English in the early 90s!

by Ted Harwood on Jan 23, 2012 3:27 PM GMT reply actions  

It is pretty horrifying

(to be English in the early ’90s)

by DPeezy on Jan 23, 2012 4:51 PM GMT up reply actions  

I have done two Charsenal crests

might be a bit “conservative” since it’s nothing flashy and nothing fancy. I didn’t do enough to justify an own thread for that. Kevin might put up a poll which one we take since we have three now

Now those are the “conservative” ones, meaning I just combined the leading elements of Chelsea and Arsenal crests. However I could also paint myself something new … but that’ll take some time and some brainstorming. Unless you faithful Charsenal supporters decide to take one of three existing now (Chelsea01’s or one of those two) I’d definitively like to present it!

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 3:42 PM GMT reply actions  

I like the second one, because of the unconventional shape.

Nobody else has a badge that shape, as far as I know.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:33 PM GMT up reply actions  

And by the way

is it only me, or is there really “Epsiode” in the headline?

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 3:48 PM GMT reply actions  

It's only you ;)

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Jan 23, 2012 4:29 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions  

Dammit!

Sometimes, typing quickly is a curse!

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:34 PM GMT up reply actions  

haha no one really noticed

too bad this comment is here though and you don’t have the power to laser it.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 11:48 PM GMT up reply actions  

Er... "?*"

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 10:52 AM GMT up reply actions  

Yes ... just minutes ago

And I learned a lot about trolling :P

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:09 AM GMT up reply actions  

Yep I'm going to change it again soon

I got a new computer a few months ago and none of my old pictures are on it so I just pulled one off of FB.

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 24, 2012 12:24 PM GMT up reply actions  

This is... wow.

I seriously am floored by this suggestion that, in the event of a merger, ANYONE would keep Torres. Dammit – sell the bum and go out and buy something else. New balls or something. Between RvP and Drogba, who needs another striker?

Anyway, before we go too far… what is the general opinion of Tottenham on this side?

So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil

by Learn2Leaf on Jan 23, 2012 3:58 PM GMT reply actions  

Interestingly

In my current Chelsea game, Torres is a reguler bench warmer with LUKAKU being my main striker. I’ve posted my first team squad b4 but I’ll do it again.

Courtois, A.cole, Terry, DL, Cesar Azpecuelta (wrong spelling, sorry), Mikel, Rakitic, Mata, Neymar, Goetze, LUKAKU in a 4-2-3-1

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Jan 23, 2012 4:27 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions  

My 7 man bench

Cech, Kalas, S. Vjalko (wrong spelling again, sorry), Josh-in-a-basket, Sturridge, Essien, Torres

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Jan 23, 2012 4:33 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions  

Hurray, I absolutely love this.

As an obsessed fan of all things FM (I was even an African database contributor…) I’m down with this idea.

Ok, eventhough (thanks to timezones, working all night and sleeping most of the day) I missed a majority of this thread and you’ve already done the database, I want to add somethings.

First of all, the squad, a 25 man team that ignores U21, should be
GK: Cech, Szcz, Hilario
DF: Terry, DL, TV5, A.Cole, Ivanovic, Sagna, Santos, Mertasaker
MF: Arteta, Mikel, Essien, Ramires, Lampard, Song, Meireles,
FW: RVP, Torres, Drogba, Walcott, Mata, Arshavin, Malouda

I think the club should start with a very small transfer fee (like 1m) but the Chairman should be made an underwriter Sugar Daddy like Roman is. That way, if you want players you’re forced to sell first…

I think both AVB and Arsene should remain as Assistant Manager and Youth Manager respectively.

A new stadium with 80,000 sounds like a good idea. 2/3 of that shuld b season ticket holders.

Fierce Rivals should be the london clubs: QPR, West Ham, Fulham and Tottenham
Other rivals should be the Manchesters, Liverpool & Barca.

I agree with the board of directors concept

TSF should be involved and the database should be made available to them…

I would suggest you make the youth academy and training the highest levels bcos a combo of the 2 clubs wuld result in the best youth recruitment,academy and training facilities in the country.

Dr. Eva should be made a world-class phsio (the main physio)

Pat rice shuld b a 1st team coach.

Ok, post over

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Jan 23, 2012 4:15 PM GMT via mobile reply actions  

The database isn't set yet, I've just made a first draft, so to speak.

I’m looking for opinions on what should be changed in the final user version. I’m going to have a version available for anyone to download and play whichever way they want, and one we all decide on here that I play and write reports on. I’ll be the manager, essentially, and you guys will be my backroom staff.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:59 PM GMT up reply actions  

Can't wait

The Nigerian Perspective!

by Iced O on Jan 24, 2012 3:04 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions  

Finished Charsenal Patch!

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 8:37 PM GMT reply actions  

I like the idea of putting it up to a vote

Maiev’s is good too so Idc whose is picked, so we should have a poll to decide the official Charsenal Patch

From Stamford Bridge to Wembley, KTBFFH

by Chelsea01 on Jan 23, 2012 8:39 PM GMT up reply actions  

I planned to do another attempt

wholly new, without figures cut from the existing Chelsea/Arsenal crests but draw a new figure group myself with a lion and a gun … however this’ll take time and I can’t grant for the result, so if we’re gonna vote we can just do it now I don’t mind

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 23, 2012 8:54 PM GMT up reply actions  

A lion firing a giant cannon is just full of win.

Well done.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 23, 2012 9:05 PM GMT up reply actions  

The poll is up, and the options are:

1:
2:
3:
4:Maiev’s proposal to draw a new lion and cannon
5:Something entirely new.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 23, 2012 11:49 PM GMT reply actions  

A combination of 1 and 3 would get my vote

The text from 1 (colour and font), the white outline of the mascots from 1, and the blue and red from 1, along with the shield shape from 3, the purple edge from 3, and the cannon with lion rampant regardant tirant from 3.

by Al Benson on Jan 24, 2012 4:30 AM GMT up reply actions  

I like elements of all of them.

I like the placement, text, and outline from 1, shape of 2, and purple edges and cannon extending to the edge from 3.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 4:50 AM GMT up reply actions  

I used the original colours from the original crests

the font is a standard font set by Adobe (should install on every system once Adobe Reader is installed, I think), and the outlines are just some cheap vector elements, later rasterized for editing purposes. Nothing special

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:43 AM GMT up reply actions  

Since I'm clearly biased on that issue

I will not vote myself

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:35 AM GMT up reply actions  

These are the first draft kits for Charsenal.

Home is purple, from the combination of red and blue, and the white sleeves of Arsenal. [Oddly, if you take the actual combination of Arsenal’s red and Chelsea’s blue, and blue and white on the sleeves, it’s a perfect West Ham claret and blue. I added more blue to the purple to avoid that.]

The Away is a combination of the Arsenal 2011-12 away design, and the Chelsea 2011-12 away colours.

The Third is a combination of the Chelsea 2011-12 third design, and the Arsenal 2011-12 third colours.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 5:28 AM GMT reply actions  

I tried that, it doesn't really look good.

Stripes look better, but are a Barca kit, which is worse. I’d do stripes if I could also do white sleeves, but I can’t. The one I made is the least objectionable, in my opinion.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 6:29 AM GMT up reply actions  

I guess it's just that without white sleeves, it doesn't seem like an Arsenal kit.

If they had a simple, red kit, it would work, but the sleeves are too distinctive to drop.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 6:44 AM GMT up reply actions  

I found an actual kit designer, but the blue and red combo looks bad with the badge.

It just clashes with and drowns out the badge. Here’s a picture of a better design I made:

Yes, I used the rectangular badge nobody else likes, and SB Nation as the sponsor. I couldn’t decide on a sponsor, and since the board members are SB Nation members, it seemed like it a good idea.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 8:19 AM GMT up reply actions  

The other two kits:

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 8:52 AM GMT up reply actions  

That third kit is funny

but then – couldn’t we lower the bar – so it’s under the sponsor’s name, like in our current bumble bee third kit? It looks so much nicer …

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:45 AM GMT up reply actions  

I don't have the skills or programs to make custom ones, so...

…I’m using a template-based program. This was the closest one to the current third kit.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 10:55 AM GMT up reply actions  

Trademark

Couldn’t we just take our own trademark? Since we can’t just mix and match the original trademarks … it would make no sense

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:44 AM GMT up reply actions  

Or maybe I can't express myself because I'm non-eloquent

and being non-English native speaker doesn’t make it more simple

What I wanted to say: we could invent our own label instead of using the Nike or adidas one, since we can’t blend their labels in (legal problems and practical problems, too)

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:11 AM GMT up reply actions  

If it becomes an issue, yeah, we can.

I’m sure Graham and Stephen would know, and take them down if it’s going to be a problem. Really, though, if it’s a problem, I’ll just go with the FM defaults, since the kits are based on actual templates, unless we can find someone who would make us totally custom ones.

Oh, and it was totally my problem understanding. What you said makes perfect sense, I just didn’t think of it in that context.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:17 AM GMT up reply actions  

As a placeholder before we decide on anything

we could also just take the star symbol SBN uses. I just feel a little bit uncomfortable with designing a new shirt and putting a real label on it … legally even if you don’t earn money with it, it’s still “using” the label, and not allowed without permission. Adidas in Germany is somewhat very restrictive … but it could be Nike is more tolerant regarding fan creations

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:23 AM GMT up reply actions  

If it comes down to it, I'll just delete them.

The kits aren’t really that important in the scheme of things.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:30 AM GMT up reply actions  

I mean, I can have the basic, non-detailed ones in FM.

The detailed ones have no real effect on the game. If you or someone else wanted to create one to display with the articles, that’s fine, but the ones I did were just to have in game.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:39 AM GMT up reply actions  

You can't upload detailed ones in FM?

FM has the same licences as the FIFA series, and they have the exact replica of the kits, don’t they?

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:43 AM GMT up reply actions  

Actually, no, you have to add any detailed ones.

They have pretty close approximations, but none of the Premier League teams have official logos or kits. The Championship does, and, I think, the lower divisions, but nothing for the “English Premier Division.” You can upload them, if you want, but then it gets into the grey area of legality. Almost every big FM forum has logos and kits available, so I don’t think SI or the trademark holders care much.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:48 AM GMT up reply actions  

Oh wait

The FM we’re talking about here is not the FM by EA Sports/Bright Future? Then I mixed up something again.

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:58 AM GMT up reply actions  

Ah. I didn't even know there was a game...

…FIFA Manager. Football Manager [formerly Championship Manager] is a different game entirely. It’s made by Sports Interactive and SEGA. I think FIFA Manager is only in Europe, but I could be wrong. Football Manager is popular around the world.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 12:36 PM GMT up reply actions  

Football Manager

isn’t even released in Germany due to licensing reasons. It’s called FM too, so that’s why I was originally confused; EA’s FM has the license set the FIFA games by EA uses. That’s why I originally thought there were license packages. But as far as I’m concerned, the Premier League have no standard license, but clubs are licensed individually?

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 2:11 PM GMT up reply actions  

That's why the German national team is disabled by default as well (in FM)

Stupid licensing. Easy to re-enable it, of course, as well as add your own logos, kits, etc, but still…

by DPeezy on Jan 24, 2012 2:50 PM GMT up reply actions  

It's really stupid ...

however fansites who offer their own sets of data for those games have been threatened with legal consequences for offering those databases and they took it down. That’s even more stupid

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 3:12 PM GMT up reply actions  

Uuuuh ... that kit looks ...

now are you sure about the manufacturer as well? Does it fall under the fair use clause of US copyright law? Because in German law if I put up a shirt of my own and pinned the Nike or adidas trademark on it I’ll get sued. Happened numerous times already :(

That home kit looks too much like Arsenal’s … how about we make it the same with the crest – half purple, half blue/white?

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:40 AM GMT up reply actions  

Then if we add a blue side to it

maybe we need to take down the white sleeves. It would look West-Ham-alike … and I’m sure nobody wants that!

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 10:46 AM GMT up reply actions  

Hrm. It might be a problem, legal-wise, but I think it's one of those things where...

…because it isn’t being sold, or represented as a legitimate product, nobody really complains.

The sad thing is, with the home kit, I spent forever trying to think of a design that worked. Unfortunately, this was the only thing that worked. Anything without white sleeves lost the Arsenal element, and having blue stripes or hoops and white sleeves seemed like a random blue bars on an Arsenal kit. It’s unfortunate, but the Arsenal kit is really hard to work into a design without making it look like an Arsenal kit. I even tried blue with white sleeves, but it ended up looking like a weird Chelsea kit. Halves was the next-best solution, but it looked like a rip-off of the Barcelona halves kit. I tried everything I could think of, but I just kept coming back to purple with white sleeves.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:06 AM GMT up reply actions  

How about -

adding white bars to the shoulders, like in our current kit, now? I’d also like to add a thin blue line around the neckline, to represent more the “Chelsea”-style. Last year we had a red element … this year we have white and blue, so we could mix’n’blend and add more Chelsea features to the shirt, without sacrificing the Arsenal look

Just a thought. I won’t put my fingers on it without your official approval though, since I worked some time on the crests and I won’t burn and fire my time again for nothing :P

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:14 AM GMT up reply actions  

It's largely a function of the tools available to me.

I don’t have the skill to do custom projects, so it’s designed based on the templates I have. That said, I found that if you put white on the shoulders, it takes away the Arsenal-ness of the shirt. It would be much easier to design a shirt combining virtually any two other clubs. I found one template that allowed an approximation of red-and-blue hoops with white sleeves, which looked alright, but the badge didn’t look good. I even tried a purple badge, and it was lost in the jumble of red and blue. If you want to try something, go ahead, but the purple kit is what I kept coming back to.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:28 AM GMT up reply actions  

OK then I just leave it

and blame the restricted functionality

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:35 AM GMT up reply actions  

Feel free to try your hand at designing something else.

I’m not a really creative person, so it could be just me. In the whole project, I’ve tried to balance the Arsenal and Chelsea elements. The home kit is by far the most difficult. Because the Arsenal kit is so distinctive, it’s a fine line between over-representing it, and not-representing it at all.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:43 AM GMT up reply actions  

Well honestly I was only very curious how that kit would look in real life ...

though since this whole project is based on the FM game and you told me it only uses the simpler version, I have to pull myself back how much sense it would make to create a 3D model and simulate the cloth only for showcase purposes, so to speak :D

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 11:47 AM GMT up reply actions  

You can use them, but it only shows them in small areas.

For matches, it just renders the simple version in the database.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 11:52 AM GMT up reply actions  

Yes I can imagine that

it would overburden the engine too much if you imported detailed kits (or higher resolution textures) for the kits. For showing purpose I can just pin on your design – what player would you like to see with? Fernando Torres would be an obvious choice since he modelled our kit this year BUT he has a very “special” body built … :(

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 12:00 PM GMT up reply actions  

More or less. I've been playing around with it a bit, and I'm sure I'll find a few fixes, but...

…for all intents, I should be ready to start soon. I’m trying to think of the best day for updates. I was thinking Monday, but late Thursday/Early Friday might be better. I don’t want these to end up too close to the pre- or post-match coverage. Either way, the first post will be describing the events that lead to the formation of the club, and the post-hiring preliminary stuff. The pre-season will be the week after, and then I’ll go month by month.

Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!

by Kevin Kostka on Jan 24, 2012 12:41 PM GMT up reply actions  

So we start into a new season afresh

It’ll be interesting to know, too, how Charsenal will fare in the league with the current standings … :P

Tor ilisar'thera'nal!

by Maiev on Jan 24, 2012 2:12 PM GMT up reply actions  

Regarding the kit, one quick point.

The purple with white sleeves seems to address the “it not looking like an Arsenal kit” problem, however, why are we focusing so much on that because it dose not look like any Chelsea kit ever. Why not a better use of blending the identities buy using the purple to create Charsnals new one. The colour is a combination in itself, lets have the one thing that represents the new, a kit to be proud of. Love the idea, as the Bristolians would say, “Makes I laugh”

by iamJD on Jan 26, 2012 5:01 PM GMT reply actions  

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