Potential Chelsea FC Transfer Target: Willian Borges da Silva
The last day or so has brought us quite a few rumblings about our pursuit of Shakhtar Donestk winger/midfielder Willian. With Shakhtar confirming both our interest and some degree of willingness to sell this morning I though it was probably time for us to take a deeper look at the player in question. We'll start by looking at the rumored price. Shakhtar mentioned in their statement that they would be willing to allow Willian to leave the club for €30 million. That's £24 million, and since we usually use the pound sterling in our transfer discussions at WAGNH I'll stick with that one from this point forward. It will really make it less confusing for everyone if we all do the same.
Now that we've got the price out of the way we can move on to the player himself. Willian turned 23 this past August making him a just about ideal fit with our youth policy if he was purchased this window. He's cup tied in the Champions League this season as Shakhtar were eliminated in the group stages. Willian joined the Ukranian side from Corinthians in 2007 and has been a regular starter ever since. He's impressed enough over the past two seasons that he made his Brazilian national team debut in November. With only 18 months remaining on his contract he's shown a real interest in testing himself in the Premier League, and there are certainly plenty of clubs interested in his services (Arsenal and United to name a few).
The biggest concern with Willian is probably his size. He stands 5'8" tall with a very slight build. He'll never be noted as an overly physical player at that size, and he's also pretty poor in the air. On the flip side of that argument Willian offers absolutely blazing speed, tremendous balance, and incredible agility. He's got the kind of speed that will cause opposing fullbacks absolute nightmares when he's on the pitch if they venture too deep into the Chelsea half or try to play a high line. He also gets up to speed incredibly fast, likely due in large part to his diminutive size.
Positionally Willian is pretty much exactly what we are looking for. He plays on the left wing for the most part at Shakhtar and his speed would seem to be best utilized on a wing. He's easily capable of playing either wing though as he's equally adept with either foot. He has also looked good in an advanced central role when he's positioned there. Shakhtar generally play their wings a bit deeper than we do, so it's fair to say that he's capable of playing as a more traditional 4-4-2 midfielder should he be asked to do that as well. Shakhtar also use a fair amount of interchange during the game so I'd imagine he and Mata would work together very well.
Technically Willian is a very intriguing player. His dribbling is fantastic, but he does occasionally tend to hold the ball a bit long. He is known as a penetrating player, and he tends to play forward balls into space very well. He's much better when he keeps his passes on the ground than when he tries to play them over the top. One gripe I might have is that he will tend to be unaware of players cutting in behind too often, but it's not a real problem. His finishing has been a bit hit and miss. When he's on he's absolutely lethal, but when he's off he's probably best just not shooting. What I've seen of his crossing hasn't been bad but I just haven't seen him do it often enough to get a real feel for his ability.
Defensively Willian doesn't offer a whole lot. He'll willingly track back and try to help out, but he's not overly physical and just isn't much of a tackler. He's an asset when Shakhtar press though, offering an active presence on the left. That press tends to leave him in lethal position for the counter as well, and he's probably the best overall offensive player on that squad.
I've got a few Willian videos for you today. The first will feature all of his touches against the other very good team in the Ukraine, Dynamo Kiev:
Next up we'll take a look at Willian against Alexandria:
Here we have all of his touches against Arsenal Kiev:
And finally for today we'll take a peek at his game against Zorya:
You'll notice that all of those videos have been brought to us by the same user, so if you want to see more it shouldn't be too hard to find. Some of you may remember him from last years Champions League as well where he was absolutely brilliant. For what it's worth, he was by far their best player in this season's disappointing campaign. It wouldn't be too hard to argue that he's been the best player in the Ukrainian Premier League thus far either. It's hard to say exactly how he'll translate to the Premier League, but all the tools are there for him to have at least the same type of impact as Luis Suarez did last January.
Willian is a very good and extremely underrated player in my eyes. At the reported £20 million that we've bid on him I feel he'd be a pretty fair value. For the £24 million we've been told we can have him for he's certainly still interesting if a bit more risky. It's pretty fair for January inflation in my eyes, and while we'll almost certainly be able to get him cheaper by waiting until summer we could certainly use the help right now. I'd also be a bit hesitant to say that a pursuit of Willian rules us out of Lucas Moura or Eden Hazard going forward as we will certainly need to add more to the attack this summer.
Andre Villas-Boas indicated today that we are pretty unlikely to overpay for a player who isn't eligible for the Champions League, so I'd be a bit skeptical that a deal gets done for the £24 million figure we just heard. The addition of Willian would certainly aid our attempt to secure a top 4 finish this season though, and after today's uninspired performance we may be a little more likely to consider a bid. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts in the comment section as I'm pretty sure we can safely say this one won't be going away any time soon.
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He was left out of their squad for this weekends match
Read into that what you will :)
Manager on Barca Blaugranes
If you really want you can follow my random musings on Twitter
The Ukrainian Premier League is on break at the moment
I saw that rumor earlier, but as far as I can tell they don’t even have a friendly today
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 8:18 PM GMT up reply actions
And no, Willian did not play a single minute, nor was he on the subs bench as far as I could tell.
And I guess it’s not “just” a friendly, it’s a friendly tournament for teams that are on extended break: Dubai Matchworld Cup 2012
Hmph
Odd that soccerway didn’t have that up. They usually have everything
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 8:52 PM GMT up reply actions
Is AVB watching the same team?
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2012/01/21/2858989/chelseas-andre-villas-boas-rules-out-bids-for-cup-tied
I think AVB is a good manager and needs to be given time, but how can he talk about Malouda like that, he was appalling today. This isn’t working and we need new signings. Today’s performance genuinely upset me, Torres wasn’t great, but he needs help and apart from Mata and from time to time Sturridge he isn’t getting it, please say your just putting up some sort of smokescreen, we need a winger like Willian or Hazard it’s getting pretty desperate
I think AVB has to defend his players to the media
He knows Malouda needs to be replaced as much as the rest of us do. I’d also have been shocked if he had said anything different about Willian. If we’re indeed targeting him we’re certainly still trying to get a lower price. I wouldn’t read anything into this at all.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:10 PM GMT up reply actions
Out of all people
Villas-Boas would know best that we shouldn’t be giving a damn about our CL run but rather should be focusing on guaranteeing a Top 4 finish and building a new team.
To me the fact that he ‘ruled’ Willian out just because he will not be eligible for the CL shows that the club is actually genuinely interested in him because, as I said, Villas-Boas is not stupid enough to actually believe that.
Willian’s club just came out and said that they want more money, so it’s natural for Chelsea to bring up the downside of him to try to reduce the price. Really, this isn’t the first time Villas-Boas is using this sort of tactic.
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 21, 2012 7:14 PM GMT up reply actions
I agree
It’s possible, who knows, it’s very hard to tell with AVB, all of his signings have been good and he knows where he is taking our club and he is buying players to fit into the particular style of play he wants, I’d just prefer to see signings sooner rather than later, it is too frustrating watching us at the moment knowing how good we can potentially be.
by CFCdiscussions on Jan 21, 2012 7:19 PM GMT up reply actions
I know
It is never ever right for a manager to criticize his players in front of the media, it will lead to a poor relationship. I guess he could be doing something similar as he did with Cahill with the wages by saying ’we’re miles apart’, but he seems to have ruled out a transfer entirely, if he wanted to lower the asking price he easily could have said something far less certain. Who knows, I just think he surely must know that we need a signing.
by CFCdiscussions on Jan 21, 2012 7:15 PM GMT up reply actions
He seems quite good.
He’s also versatile which would mean if we did get Hazard or another forward/attacking midfielder we’d be able to rotate and he could fill either the left right or centre. Seems like a sensible addition if a slight risk. Though being 23 we could probabably get back what we paid for if he’s good and more if he’s very good.
hey
Doesnt that mean there would be a change to 4-2-3-1 from the curent 4-3-3 that we’re playing? Wilian left, danny right and mata centre.that’d mean a mid packd with Skill, pace, technique. Great. But from what i hav seen, AVB is sooo NOT flexible with the tactics. He sticks to his 4-3-3 all the time.
by winningisourgame on Jan 21, 2012 7:07 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
He really doesn't
Our typical 4-3-3 isn’t really a traditional 4-3-3 in any sense. Neither Sturridge or Mata are traditional wingers in that setup. It’s really a 4-3-3 in name only.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:11 PM GMT up reply actions
I think having a winger that wants to play centrally
and a winger that wants to cut in and shoot isn’t working. But i think both are very important players. What i would like is a similar chemistry to when we won the double (obviously). I’d have three attacking players that constantly interchange and switch positions with each other to confuse the defence and create for each other. But rather than it being two wingers and a striker i’d prefer if it was two wingers and an attacking midfielder. That way Torres can get the service he needs and doesn’t have to drop deep or go wide to cover all the time.
Essien and Ramires in adouble pivot looked decent for 15 minutes so a full game would be tasty. Willain suits that attacking midfield trio very well. Also if we went in for Hazard he could also play in that system. Meaning Willain, Mata, Sturridge and Hazard could all rotate for the same positions.
Sounds like you're asking for
Fluidity from the attacking players and I think that AVB also is after this as well.
Would leave us too thin
Sturridge could be second choice striker and first choice on the right if we keep Lukaku. If we loan Lukaku keep Drogba and depending on form Sturridge would be second or third choice CF.
He doesn't want to play Malouda.
He avoids it as much as possible.
I'm still not too sure about this
We’d get Gaston Ramirez for less,I think-he has a relatively low buyout clause too,I’m guessing. He’s even younger than Willian,and not cup-tied either,cuz he’s playing at Bologna. Plus,I think Uruguayans are cool. Willian will be good,but at £24m I think its a bit risky. £15m won’t suit his market value,but somewhere between that and £20m is as far as I’d go. Actually,I’d prefer we go for Ramirez,and buy De Bruyne. Ramirez has got fantastic potential and De Bruyne is cheaper than Willian,and looks like he can develop into a good winger too! :)
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 21, 2012 7:22 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
I don't believe Ramirez has a buyout anymore
He just signed a new deal in the last few weeks. He’s probably not ready to do much for Chelsea either. He’d be a great long term fit but isn’t going to offer much immediately.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:25 PM GMT up reply actions
He's just 2 years younger than Willian
And league competition in Serie A is a significant step up from UPL-so he could play-only downside is,we still wouldn’t have a winger. Didn’t know about the new contract though. Maybe we should take a page from Juve’s book-loan a player in Jan,and buy him if he fits into the system well. We could try it with Willian,too-see how he handles the physicality of the PL first. We really need a few wingers/AMs,Mata can’t play every game. Maybe we can save the real targets (like Hazard,Moura?) for summer,and get more viable alternatives for now. Loan Krasic,even he might be able to help us now.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 21, 2012 7:49 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
There is certainly a difference in the level of competition thus far, but Ramirez is nowhere near ready for Chelsea yet.
He’s not an every match starter at a pretty shitty Serie A side yet. Willian is probably the best player in a lower league, but he’s clearly far too good for his current level. While there are questions about how Willian would handle the transition there should be no question that Ramirez would have a greatly reduced role moving from Bologna to Chelsea. Great prospect, but he’s not going to be much help this season. Willian on the other hand could easily be a help right now.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:57 PM GMT up reply actions
I see your point
Willian will be a help on the wings. I just hope his crossing’s great-couldn’t handle another Bosingwa-style crosser. But he still doesn’t resolve our need for a creative player through the middle…which seems sort of forgotten recently with all the demand for wingers…
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 21, 2012 8:43 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
I actually meant a deeper playmaker
Mata will be great in the role,I’m sure-but I think giving him a free role behind the forwards is better-he can go wings,play through the centre,whatever. But I wanted another player who could actually spray about the passes everywhere-to the wings,fullbacks,forwards with long balls if necessary-like Hernanes from Lazio. Think Mikel can do the same thing,if he gets a shot away from the defensive midfield role…he’s just very underrated and criticised by most fans,who don’t seem to get that he’s NOT a defensive midfielder.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 9:19 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Definately no Mikel!
He is simply far too slow on the ball and frankly his technical ability leaves a lot to be desired. He would offer nothing in a deep laying playmaker role,simply does not have the vision, guile or passing ability to do it!Ever Banega could possibly do the job but I wouldn’t be confident in his ability to adapt to premier league football!
by conorjmartin on Jan 22, 2012 12:39 PM GMT up reply actions
You haven't seen Mikel play in the national team
And anyway,most playmakers ‘seem’ slow on the ball. Technique? His technique is actually quite brilliant-like I said,few people know that Mikel is not playing in his natural position when he’s in that defensive role. His passing is pretty class too-Mikel is sadly one very underrated and over-criticised player…particularly by many Chelsea fans. (I think me and Iced O are the only Mikel supporters here :P) Banega? He’s never been really known for passing and unlocking defences,in any case…he’s another shield-kind of player.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 5:41 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
nah, mikel is pretty bad
on par with bosingwa really
by blue_is_the_colour on Jan 22, 2012 7:27 PM GMT up reply actions
I disagree. No way he's bad, let alone Bosingwa bad.
Mikel is pretty underrated by pretty much everyone on Earth.
Comparing Mikel with Bosingwa now?
Oh that’s a new dimension of Mikel-punching lately
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Agree about Mikel, but disagree about Banega. The guy is class.
He’s like your Argie Schweinstieger/Modric hybrid. He has opened up many a defense with his long range passing and is only 23.
I’d have him here in a second.
Banega is so much more than a shield player!
He is the kind of player that dictates the pace of the game, gets on the ball and sets up the play, I think he is pretty much a dictionary description of deep laying playmaker. I also disagree with your idea that all playmakers are slow on the ball, the likes of xavi may not run fast but they take very few touches and move the ball quickly and into dangerous areas. You only have to watch the difference between Romeu and Mikel to see what I mean by him being too slow on the ball. They play the same role in the same team, yet when romeu gets the ball its 1-2 touches and the ball gets played crisply to a player in a more advanced position however Mikel gets the ball he takes and extra 2-3 touches before generally passing sideways or backwards, this has nothing to do being played out of position its just fundamental playing style. As for the national team,no I have not seen him for them however I would say the standard of the majority of African national teams which he would be facing is probably no better than league 1!
by conorjmartin on Jan 23, 2012 4:22 PM GMT up reply actions
I'm still not too sure about this
We’d get Gaston Ramirez for less,I think-he has a relatively low buyout clause too,I’m guessing. He’s even younger than Willian,and not cup-tied either,cuz he’s playing at Bologna. Plus,I think Uruguayans are cool. Willian will be good,but at £24m I think its a bit risky. £15m won’t suit his market value,but somewhere between that and £20m is as far as I’d go. Actually,I’d prefer we go for Ramirez,and buy De Bruyne. Ramirez has got fantastic potential and De Bruyne is cheaper than Willian,and looks like he can develop into a good winger too! :)
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 21, 2012 7:24 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
i agree
ramirez and de bruyne would be great with hopefully piazon coming through the ranks.
by luciobrazil007 on Jan 21, 2012 7:27 PM GMT up reply actions
what about his team mate douglas costa?
we were linked in the summer and i would rather have him. what do u thnk?
Similar sort of player
I’d gladly have him. He looks very good. Maybe he’d cost a lot more though.
I'd guess about the same
What he doesn’t give you in current production you’d make up in age
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:28 PM GMT up reply actions
Same type of player
Younger, not nearly as good at the moment.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:27 PM GMT up reply actions
Nowadays
You pay for potential as much as actual skill. Doesn’t he have longer on his transfer?
Having only seen Willian in CL, I'm not an expert..
… but I wasn’t overly wowed, and it seems like he’d be better in a counter-attacking side.
In some sense, everybody looks better in a counter-attacking side
Just look at all praise that was thrown at Germany for their “open”/“attacking” play at the World Cup when most of their wow-factor and fluidity came from their fast, effective, beautiful counters.
FWIW, Shakhtar are about as far from a counter attacking side as you can get
He’s been awfully good in a very possession and attack oriented system already.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 8:59 PM GMT up reply actions
Sounds like he's used to breaking down sides
That like to pack the box
Could be exactly what we need.
Really?
I remember reading Zonal Marking after their amazing match vs. Zenit…
Shakhtar and Zenit are two of the more counter-attacking sides in this season’s competition.
Not watching them a ton, it did jive with the few games I saw in this year’s group stage. Willian was very good vs. Zenit, I have to admit.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:45 PM GMT up reply actions
That must be having to do with strictly the Champions League
Shakhtar average 63% possession in UPL games, tops in the league.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 10:50 PM GMT up reply actions
Purely as a function of the talent gap in the UPL, I suppose...
… but against better sides, the Costa-Jadson-Willian band was really fantastic on the counter.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:52 PM GMT up reply actions
Most likely
I’d go out on a limb and say it was a mistake though. Shakhtar were much better last year when they just went after teams than they were this year when they played cautious. They are bleeding goals domestically but scoring at such a ridiculous rate that they’re still right at the top of the table.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 10:57 PM GMT up reply actions
Let me pose you this question:
What player in the 20-30M range would you prefer this window, with the caveat that they probably need to be at least semi-available and ideally CL eligible?
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:03 PM GMT up reply actions
I prefer Willian to Jovetic, and I think those are my top two in that price range that are reasonably available
At the slightly (possibly considerably) higher price range I prefer Moura to Hazard. I didn’t include Gotze as I don’t think he’d be available under any circumstances. Frankly I’m not too concerned about CL eligibility as I don’t think it will be that big a deal this year.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:17 PM GMT up reply actions
He's nineteen years old, right?
I would expect him to be inconsistent.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:45 PM GMT up reply actions
ah, for some reason I thought he was younger.
by Cablinasian on Jan 22, 2012 12:01 AM GMT up reply actions
We've been talking about him here since he was
And I’m pretty sure you’ve been here from just about the time the site launched.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2012 12:07 AM GMT up reply actions
When was the site launched?
Beginning of last season right?
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 22, 2012 12:22 AM GMT up reply actions
August 2010
Here is the first post in the archives
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2012 12:28 AM GMT up reply actions
His passing range was exaggerated :P
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 22, 2012 12:41 AM GMT up reply actions
Keep in mind all that scouting was from his time at Benfica
Lower level of competition and all. He’s become a lot more direct since coming over and makes considerably faster decisions.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2012 12:44 AM GMT up reply actions
I think his passing is a bit underrated.
He’s inconsistent but makes some nice passes.
by Cablinasian on Jan 22, 2012 12:45 AM GMT up reply actions
I'm a fan of Xherdan Shaqiri!!
Thought he was class in the summer at the u21’s,better than Mata in that tournament, very impressive against utd in the CL this season too. Probably wouldn’t even cost £20m, doubt you could get him this window though since Basle are still in the CL but I can’t see him staying there for long and I doubt you would get the same competition for his signature as say Hazard!Plays on the wrong wing though!
by conorjmartin on Jan 21, 2012 11:23 PM GMT up reply actions
There's been some links to Turkey as well
I can’t say I ever really recall watching him outside of that match against Man United so I can’t really comment too much. As much as I slack off at work watching soccer (and it’s a lot), I can’t really recall watching any other games he’s been involved in.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2012 12:03 AM GMT up reply actions
Nothing signed yet though!
Chelsea could easily beat hamburg in the transfer market. I’ve also seen rumours of Porto and utd being interested!was just watching a few videos of him on youtube, admittedly a very bad way to judge a player, seems to have everything,good dribbler, strong, quick, can pick a good pass/cross. Also scored a cracker against england, one of the many goals he scored from outside the box, seems a very good finisher!
by conorjmartin on Jan 22, 2012 12:41 AM GMT up reply actions
its in his best interest to join
its clear that brazillians who play in eastern europe struggle to make the national team , willian , douglas costa and guliano all moved to ukraine after showing great potential and havent played for brazil. they need to play in south america or western europe to be in the spotlight.
I don't think there will be much trouble in convincing him
He’s already told the club he wants to move to a bigger league. It’s convincing Shakhtar to sell in January that could be tough.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:39 PM GMT up reply actions
Give them the £24mil
It’s a fair price. He wont block a move for a Hazard-esque signing in the summer has the potential to be an excellent player and fills a short term need for the club. Maybe try £22mil with add-ons.
I'd see Alex being a better fit there
They have a mega rich owner, lot’s of Brazilians, and an abysmal defense. I could see that being a match.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 7:59 PM GMT up reply actions
If this is an "instead of" buy
I’m not really with it. I think the kid has loads of technical ability and we could definitely use that but having said that there are other targets who I feel will offer more in other areas. Having said that if he is being purchased as just another piece to the puzzle than I’m all for it! He can fulfill both Kalou and Malouda’s place on the squad as far as i’m concerned. We still need that extra elite level piece to get us over the hump. I love Willian and a squad depth type guy who can help us now as wee look to stay top 4. He’s not a saviour and its unlikely we’ll be able to get that sort of impact player in the January window.
I’m holding out for more but I certainly wouldn’t be upset if we do acquire him he’s a tidy player and should mesh well with the other Brazilians and Portuguese players on the squad. He could help pave the way to bring one of Ganso, Moura or Ney… won’t go there but you get the drift.
He could certainly add something we don't have a lot of yet.
And is very versatile. He could get game time even if we made that big name signing in the summer and has a lot of potential. In the short term he’d help us a lot and would be very useful in the long term.
I doubt it’s an instead of buy. From the rumours and speculation I’ve heard it looks like they’re looking for the right kind of players and seem to be looking for the best deal on the best player.
He will only add pace and technique
nothing more.
He is not a creative player, he is not known for his passing ability or vision. Trust me, we don’t want to waste 24 million quid on a player like this. I even rate Kalou higher than him.
Let's not get carried away here...
There isn’t a manager on the planet that would rate Kalou higher than Willian. He does have his flaws but he’s two footed with excellent pace and technique those types of qualities don’t exactly grow on trees. He’s not a saviour he is a borderline 1st teamer on a squad looking to win it all. Keep in mind that £24M doesn’t go as far as it used to either.
Yeah Malouda cost £14mil
almost 5 years ago. Technically in football inflation we’d be paying less for a younger, arguably better player.
Still think Malouda in his prime or on form would be better than Willian
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 8:40 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
We like to forget how Malouda was today
He was very fine 2008/2009 and 2099/2010. Unfortunately his prime with us didn’t last as long as we’d like to have
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I think Willian is a similar level of player
and he hasn’t reached his prime yet. Malouda was good for us as you said 2 seasons. We’d get 4 or 5 season of Willain at his best and he’d retain his value. If we sell him at 28 we’d get close to what we paid for him.
If it were only 2 seasons ...
really good he was only 1 1/2 seasons. In the beginning of 2008/2009 during the Scolari tenure he wasn’t that great; with Hiddink’s arrival he turned out … I dare say really great and continued that form. Sadly, by the end of 2010, he dipped again.
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Exactly
Malouda was a pretty damn good player for us,until somehow he just suddenly dipped last season. He still offers us something,but not really what we’ve come to expect from FloMo.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 7:15 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
He was horrendous under Scolari.
He was good from the start of Hiddinks tenure (and by good I mean tops in the world imo) to the Christmas era for Ancelotti’s first season. After that, and before. Shit.
I bet everyone in France
Wished Drogba played for them instead of Ivory Coast. After winning the double they could have started with Malouda Drogba Anelka upfront. Could have won the world cup. Instead? They sucked
With those problems in the squad during the WC
I doubt Drogba could have done anything :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Practically everyone was shit under Scolari
Except maybe Anelka,and Bosingwa? Malouda was great in the double-winning season-little dip during our patchy form,but came back to finish on a high.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 24, 2012 9:33 PM GMT up reply actions
Kalou's
Banging in goals for Ivory Coast I see.
by nsleepy3 on Jan 21, 2012 8:45 PM GMT via iPhone app up reply actions
That something he will always do in a 4-4-2
Here he has to play out wide and does possess the skills to break a man down. I like him but he’s not what we need glad he’s scoring for his country though!
Very True!
Not knocking Kalou’s contribution to the Blues he’s scored some big goals he’s just not what we need given the current set up.
I hope you're right
He’s a decent player who warrants pitch time I just don’t know if he’s the type of player that can contribute consistently to a side trying to win everything. I haven’t seen much of him outside of Champions League so its hard to really get a read on him but technical ability and pace are areas we still need to address, I would rather get a player who can do more like pick out a pass, score the odd goal, cross it into the box and perhaps have better balance but in January we’d do very well to grab him. As long as we’re not paying more than he is actually worth(no more than £22M in my limited estimation) than I’m all for it.
He strikes me as a guy who can strike the fear of god into a defender the first couple times they play but after a while the defender will figure him out. Just what we need right now!
I think you're right that if we got him now by December defenders will probably figure him out.
It happens to most wingers though. I think if we get the fluidity in our attacking players and our star striker starts scoring all of our players would be able to confuse defenders. That kind of chemistry is hard to come by and can easily disappear (the middle section of last year for instance was the end of the Malouda, Drogba, Anelka magic)
But if Willian is only spending half of his match as a left winger occasionally swapping with Danny and Mata it’ll be harder. And like i say if we went in for Hazard in the summer or another big name versatile attacking midfielder we’d have the same effect with Danny up front.
Also a £22mil bid could probably get him for us
We said £20mil they said £24mil. If we wanted him here by the time we got back from holiday we’d bid £24mil tomorrow. Although I’d imagine they’ll go for a £22mil meet you halfway and try and we could have him within the next ten days
I'd like to see us offer around 18M and Alex, see if they bite.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:46 PM GMT up reply actions
I think that's ambitious
Maybe £21mil plus Alex would be fair seeing as he wont be going to a EPL rival.
3M for Alex seems pretty low.
I’d start the negotiation lower. It was just this summer that we supposedly valued Alex at 10M.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:03 PM GMT up reply actions
We did and Gary Cahill was valued at 16mil
We don’t need him. It’s not fair to hold him out. Maybe £20mil and Alex then but I’d rather he went for less to a club that he’d play for than leave him in the reserves for 6 months or sell him to a rival.
Our only direct rivals for placement are Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, and, to a lesser extent, the Manchester clubs.
I don’t get why selling him to QPR is a problem.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:07 PM GMT up reply actions
It would be sad. I like Alex
I don’t want to have to beat him. Or worse lose against him.
It isn't a problem technically
it’s just emotional … like West Ham hating to sell to us, too
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
"Instead of" whom, might I ask?
You see Hazard, Gotze, or whoever your favorite may be are not just being put up in the shop window for us to wander by and pluck them for ‘x’ amount of cash.
Everybody has a price...
Hazard can be had perhaps not in this window.
If we need to bring someone out of retirement
we could simply make some of our guys younger. Would be tad easier, since DPeezy has an idea of a time machine – it just doesn’t work :D
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I wouldn't bet the farm
He couldn’t be had this window either. Everyone has a price its just whether or not we’re willing to bid in that range again.
But wouldn't it annoy you that we could possibly get him for less than £40mil
in the summer but we spent £50-60mil to get him now?
YES!
But who knows what his actual valuation is. The closest we have come to getting a number for him would be the club president say he’s probably worth 40M euros.
I heard from mastiffchild..
that he has a buyout clause of £33mil so surely thats all we need to spend?…. :P
by ZolaDancesThrough. on Jan 21, 2012 9:32 PM GMT up reply actions 1 recs
Holy shit Mourinho's posting on my website!
by Graham MacAree on Jan 22, 2012 7:38 PM GMT up reply actions
A very good player? Underrated? HAHAHAHA!!!!
Have you even seen him in a real game?! Or just YouTube compilations and in Football Manager, lol. Willian is one of the most overrated and overpriced Brazilians at the moment. Yes, even more overpriced than Hulk!
He has pace and technique and that’s it! He does not add anything we don’t have. We need a player with vision, someone who can create chances not another Walcott type of player. We need a skillfull and inventive player like Hazard for on the wings.
Player A:
85.9% pass completion rate
1.3 successful crosses per game
1.6 key passes per game
2.5 successful long balls per game
0.2 successful through balls per game
Player B:
81.7% pass completion rate
0.8 successful crosses per game
1.9 key passes per game
2.3 successful long balls per game
0.3 successful through balls per game
Using your description of the two you’d assume Player A was Hazard and Player B was Willian. You’d be wrong by assuming that.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 8:44 PM GMT up reply actions
Erm... Mattlock I mean the Bison...
I think its time to go to a commercial!
In the interest of fairness, although I don't agree with The Bison, Will struts his stuff
in a lower league where his stats could be “padded”.
To some extent
The Ukrainian Premier League and Ligue 1 really aren’t all that wide a talent gulf any more. Most rating systems (and the UEFA coefficients) would put the Ukraine above the Eredivisie now. Ligue 1 has really gone downhill in the last ten years and the Ukranian League has moved in the opposite direction. While Hazard still plays in a better league I’d argue that they (UPL and Ligue 1) are much closer in talent than either are to catching Serie A or the Bundesliga.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 9:41 PM GMT up reply actions
77.7% passing
1.4 crosses
2.3 key passes
0.9 long balls
0.3 through balls
He typically plays in a more advanced role than the other two and does so against tougher competition.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:20 PM GMT up reply actions
They are all opta stats
To get them for EPL players you can check the guardian chalkboards, epl index, or who scored to name a few good ones.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 22, 2012 1:38 PM GMT up reply actions
Looks Better
I first saw him in this years Champione league and really didn’t see much in the lad. However, he sure looks more bright in these videos, capable of making the pass as well as finishing with class. Again, it’s been said, but the price does seem a bit steep even with customary January inflation. But I would still love to see him patrol the flanks at Chelsea.
by Dlewis on Jan 21, 2012 8:33 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
Football inflation has been mental over the past few years.
remember Drogba cost us £24mil in 2004. With that considered this is a bargain.
He, Jadson, and Costa are pretty interchangeable.
I’d still call him a left winger based on what I’ve seen in the CL, but just generically calling him an attacker would be fair as well.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 9:44 PM GMT up reply actions
??
Does anyone have any ideas who they reckon we’ll sign before the window closes???
by CFCTOIDIE on Jan 21, 2012 9:44 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
If it was up to me
Probably this guy. I’d go for Hazard, Jovetic, Rodwell and a RB in the summer. I’d let Drogba, Malouda, Kalou, Mikel and Bosingwa go in the summer also. Torres, Sturridge, Lukaku rotating the CF position. Mata, Sturridge, Hazard, Willian and Jovetic rotating the three attacking midfield positions. Essien, Ramires, Lampard, Romeu and Meireles rotate the double pivot.
In defence we’ll have Cole and Bertrand for LB, Luiz, Terry, Cahill and Ivanovic for CB and Ivanovic and new RB competing at RB. Just my thinking.
I don't reckon
Hazard will because he’s cup tied, I think either Jovetic or willian will but do u reckon theyl come this month or summer?
by CFCTOIDIE on Jan 21, 2012 10:30 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
I've had a bit more time to digest this.
In the end, we shouldn’t let great be the enemy of good. As much as I think that, for Chelsea to succeed, we need to buy players with potential to be world-class, we also need to keep in mind that fourth place this year is of absolute importance. Willian might not be the ultimate answer to winning a Premier League, but he’ll retain value for a while and his club is willing to sell. Buying a player to get into the CL is better than missing out.
It must be noted that our fullback play is our weakest spot at the moment.
I also wouldn’t mind a play for Montolivo, seeing as he’s out of contract in the summer. That would leave us overstocked in midfield, though.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:51 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't really like Montolivo as a fit any more
We have an awful lot of central midfielders with similar skills and overall talent. We seem fine there as far as depth goes but could really use another world class player.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 10:55 PM GMT up reply actions
I'd like Montolivo as a replacement for Meireles.
We don’t really have a deep-lying playmaker that slots into a 4-2-3-1 too well.
You’re right that we have quite a lot of good central midfielders, but none in the world class category. If we do add Willian, the obvious need is for a deep-lying playmaker, since I imagine we’d be in more of a 4-2-3-1/4-2-1-3.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:58 PM GMT up reply actions
I'd have preferred Montilivo to Meireles as well
I was never really a fan of that signing though. I’d have rather just kept Yossi.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:03 PM GMT up reply actions
I get the Meireles signing, since it added versatility.
The problem is that we now have a glut of players with a lot of duplicated skill sets. Maybe Josh will really impress at Swansea and be ready sooner than we expect, but it’s a hole right now.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:05 PM GMT up reply actions
I dunno I like Essien and Ramires in the double pivot.
If we play them then it’s similar to the system Man City have except the only midfielder they have better than Ramires and Essien is Yaya
You could introduce a deep sitting playmaker in 18months as it’s more something of a luxury. Right now Meireles and Lampard can perform that role. It’s not really a necessity.
I kind of disagree, since City's biggest issue is their lack of a deep-lying playmaker.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:12 PM GMT up reply actions
Modric functions best as part of a double pivot.
He and an in-form Essien would be unreal, with Ramires taking some starts there and some at right attacking midfield. Mata centrally would be wonderful as well.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:16 PM GMT up reply actions
Possibly but for £40mil+?
I appreciate that having a 4-2-3-1 with three interchanging attacking midfielders, an inform striker, a deep lying playmaker sat next to a box to box midfielder (or if they are good enough another deep lying playmaker) would be an amazingly creative side with enough cover for the defence and an effective pressing shape.
I think for the style of play our manager is aiming for that would be ideal. But maybe as we’re leaking goals in the wrong end playing two amazing box to boxers should be enough right now.
If a good player became available in that role for a reasonable amount I’d be for it. But they all cost a crap load and wouldn’t help us out a huge amount right now.
Also if we were to buy Modric right now
would he help us as much as Willian? If we put him in a double pivot with Essien or Ramires behind Malouda, Mata and Sturridge would we be better than Willian, Mata and Sturridge ahead of Ramires and Essien?
It’s not a pressing matter in my opinion. Maybe like i said in 18 months. For now I think we need two or three attacking midfielders.
you're right. Willian for now is ideal.
As much as I like Modric, I don’t like the thought of over paying for Harrys Modric either. Besides, Ramires and an ideal Essien are still the stuff of dreams!
We know Modric is world class
We would hope Willian is. Modric will probably cost double the amount of Willian though.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:31 PM GMT up reply actions
As long as Spurs don't implode I'm pretty sure they'll be in the CL next year
They’ll be improving there squad. Meaning that it’ll be even harder to buy him this summer. I don’t see Willian flopping very much. Maybe he wont be as good as we’d hope but surely he’d be able to retain his value.
If we say Man City’s biggest Issue is no deep lying playmaker then I wont miss a deep lying play make if we start scoring and defending as well as Man City. Then once we’re challenging we can try and find a younger, more reasonably priced player for what is essentially a luxury role in a side.
Modric would help us much more than Willian as I see it.
Modric is a bit old, though, so he’d be a poor value buy.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:41 PM GMT up reply actions
are u suggesting Modric play further up the pitch or
that he’ll provide more killer passes for our forwards from further deep?
Modric would play further forward than a true regista like Pirlo.
But still fairly deep. It’s not about the killer pass with him, it’s the spraying to the flanks, organizing play, getting the ball quickly from defense and to the attacking players, etc. He is really fantastic.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:46 PM GMT up reply actions
I think it largely depends on AVB's willingness to put Mata in a central position.
Currently, he is leaving Ash too exposed and expends a lot of energy tracking back to the left. Willian on the left would allow us to either go 4-2-3-1, possibly at the expense of Romeu/Mikel, or stay 4-3-3 with Sturridge up top and Mata and Willian on the wings.
Mata is also in need of rotation. His passing was just not on point today.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:52 PM GMT up reply actions
Yes Bertrand should really be given a chance.
Mata central and Willian on the left would be great too
I think he would take Mata's position on the left wing!
Mata would then move central, so I suppose he would be replacing the attacking one of the midfield trio, likely Lampard!
by conorjmartin on Jan 21, 2012 11:54 PM GMT up reply actions
I would say that fullback play, deep midfield play, and a winger are our biggest needs.
We really struggle to break teams down that play in their own area against us. A deep-lying playmaker speeds up the transition from defense to attack, which is one of our big issues at the moment. Like, say, today.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 PM GMT up reply actions
They failed to make it out of the CL group stage.
Tough group, yeah, but they’ve had some issues with teams separating their midfield and attack. If they replaced Barry with someone efficient at spreading out the play, they’d be ridiculous.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:40 PM GMT up reply actions
Agreed but the is no shame in waiting for our short term needs to be filled.
Modric or a similar player would be very useful in breaking teams down and linking the team together. It would also speed up play a lot. I’d rather have someone much younger than Modric.
IMO it isn;t a short term need.
FWIW
Missing the Champions League will cost us about 20 million pounds. Spending 24 (plus wages) to help assure we make that 20 back is probably a wise decision.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 10:53 PM GMT up reply actions
Is it only 20 million?
I thought that was for the group stage, but Chelsea’s routinely made over 30M in CL tv revenue by advancing further if I remember the Swiss Ramble piece correctly. Plus, that’s at least three extra games in matchday revenue as well.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:56 PM GMT up reply actions
I was just using group stage dollars, as that's all we'd be assured.
Realistically it would be a considerably larger loss than that.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 10:58 PM GMT up reply actions
Plus the added risk of not advancing past the playoff round.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:59 PM GMT up reply actions
To clarify
Third is more valuable than fourth, since there’s no playoff, so buying a player to gun for third has a financial benefit, albeit much smaller.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 10:59 PM GMT up reply actions
I think third should be our goal at the moment.
We can’t become second best team in London. Also it has benefits. guaranteed Group stage CL
Its not just about the money!
If chelsea want to revamp the squad in the summer they will need to be able to offer champions league football if they want to buy top class players!
by conorjmartin on Jan 21, 2012 11:13 PM GMT up reply actions
Will this willian make it in the premiership tho? And is there a big chance of him coming to the bridge before the window closes…
by CFCTOIDIE on Jan 21, 2012 11:07 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
If we offer £24mil tomorrow
He’ll be a Chelsea player before the weekend.
There's really no way to know until he plays here
At this time last year people were asking the same questions about Luis Suarez. He was probably the best player in the Eredivisie which is probably the most comparable league to the UPL talent wise. There’s always a chance he flops, but there is just as good a chance he immediately becomes one of the best players in the league. What we do know for sure is that he’s way to good to stay in the Ukraine and he’s looked pretty good in the Champions League.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:11 PM GMT up reply actions
While I do agree with this..
Suarez was killing it in international play and had better statistics in the Eredivisie..
But still we can only hope Willian’s talent transitions smoothly to the Premiership
He had much better goal scoring statistics
He had far inferior passing statistics. Overall they were on a very similar level in their respective leagues. Dead on the international experience though.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:22 PM GMT up reply actions
David Luiz strikes me as another comparable value wise
He was voted the best player in the Portugese League, was about the same age, and was relatively successful in the CL. We knew he had the tools to be successful but weren’t sure. He cost about the same as what Shakhtar are asking.
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 21, 2012 11:40 PM GMT up reply actions
Not even Hulk was involved with the Brazilian team til recently.
Not featuring for the Brazilian senior squad isn’t exactly a death knell.
by Cablinasian on Jan 21, 2012 11:44 PM GMT up reply actions
so do yous reckon we'll bid that money for him?
I hope he comes to the bridge to inject energy into our play just hope they bid the money for him personlly I donnt think we’ll get him…
by CFCTOIDIE on Jan 21, 2012 11:22 PM GMT via mobile reply actions
Who should we buy
I’d rather we go for Matt Jarvis for £10m. He’s hugely underrated and can definitely put in those crosses as he shown in numerous occasions.
For extravagant buy, splash out the amount we paid for Torres for Bale. he’s definitely worth it.
by Marcus_Cfc on Jan 22, 2012 2:37 AM GMT via Android app reply actions
Bale would apparently cost £150mil
And Modric £50mil. No point buying players from Spurs anytime soon.
Saw that £150m in the tabloids today!
I would never go on tabloid prices but there is no way in hell you would get Spurs to sell Bale to Chelsea for £50m. I agree that we can forget about buying Spurs players any time soon, they proved last summer that they are willing to be very stubborn in the transfer market, turning down huge offers even when a player hands in a transfer request. Add to that the fact that they will be back in the CL next season and that they have a better team than Chelsea these days and the idea of us getting Bale seems ridiculous. He will leave eventually but I feel it will be for the continent!
by conorjmartin on Jan 22, 2012 12:51 PM GMT up reply actions
I don't think we are
Nonsense media rumors.
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 22, 2012 3:09 AM GMT up reply actions
hes seen as the lampard replacement though
not by me, by the media
by blue_is_the_colour on Jan 22, 2012 10:11 AM GMT up reply actions
yea i do agree with you
i personally never thought of him as lampards replacement
by blue_is_the_colour on Jan 22, 2012 10:16 AM GMT up reply actions
He's the kind of player you play next to a more exciting one.
The future England midfield is Wilshire and Rodwell behind McEachran. Wouldn’t be bad having 2/3 of that midfield at Chelsea.
Because then our future midfielder would be sorted
Rodwell, Romeu and McEachran in 4 years would be amazing. I think Rodwell is a very talented player. Not the most exciting but would be worth the £20mil price tag.
Rodwell is the last thing we need right now!
Our midfield is already overloaded with players with little guile and creativity. There is nothing he can add that Ramires, Essien, Romeu, Mikel, Merieles and Lampard don’t already do,in fact I seriously doubt he would get many first team opportunities at Chelsea. The guy is pretty average, decent athlete without being overly strong or quick and a decent footballer but he will never have the ability to dribble past 3-4 players of cut defences open with incisive passing. If its a proper midfielder we want I feel we should bid big on Thiago at Barcelona, he will be every bit as good as Xavi in a few years time and he isn’t getting the playing time at Barca that he would at Chelsea, the kid is at least as good as Modric in my opinion!
by conorjmartin on Jan 22, 2012 1:03 PM GMT up reply actions
Rodwell is a young superstar in the making
He might even be molded into a centreback,if I guess correctly. He’s not ever meant to be a playmaker, you’ve got that wrong. If he was just average,I wouldn’t be able to explain why the big teams like Man U,Chelsea,Arsenal are all interested in him. He’s Everton’s biggest asset right now. I guess by midfielders you’re including only creative players…and there is no way in hell Barca are going to let go of Thiago Alcantara-Pep has him marked out for taking up the midfield mantle of the team soon. Waste of time if we bid for him.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 5:27 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
yeah but like i said earlier
i dont have it wrong, i dont think he is lampards replacement, i dont think he is a playmaker, thats just what ive heard in the media ok?
by blue_is_the_colour on Jan 22, 2012 7:29 PM GMT up reply actions
He's a very solid midfield player.
And a tidy passer (88%). Would help with defence and attack. Not as exciting as McEachran but would be excellent playing alongside a more creative player like McEachran.
I never actually said he was a playmaker or meant to be a playmaker!
And yes I was only thinking of creative midfielders as that is what I feel the team needs right now, we have plenty of destroyers and runners and generally just Rodwell type players in the team. Also I’m not sure if we need any more central defenders as we currently have 4 with a number coming through and if we were to buy cover in that position we should go for a specialised central defender rather than a midfield convert! I also believe a fair bit of the hype around the guy is purely down to the fact that he is young and English! As for interest from big clubs, big clubs are linked with players all the time-and not always good ones,that interest has been rumoured for a number of years now yet nobody has actually made a bid as far as I know. Fact is if he was really top class he would have been snapped up from Everton some time ago.
by conorjmartin on Jan 23, 2012 4:06 PM GMT up reply actions
We could actually go for Rodwell,with an eye on the future
Meireles and Essien aren’t going to be viable in the long term,say 3-4 years? Neither is Lampard. Malouda (winger,but has played centrally so I’m including him here) may leave too. That leaves our midfield looking thin,a bit. Rodwell could well shore it up. Looking at the “right now” instead of planning a bit ahead is what got us into this spot in the first place. Everton have rejected quite a few bids-they won’t want another Wayne Rooney where they could have possibly had a few good seasons from him,instead of selling to the highest bidder ASAP. Rodwell’s proven himself in the league,against big teams,too. And I highlighted the centreback role to show he’s versatile…like Essien,now.
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 24, 2012 9:41 PM GMT up reply actions
Agreed on no need for Rodwell
About Thiago, I agree he is class but Barca wont sell.Alternatives I like Sahin or Granero
Sahin over Granero,for me
Very classy player! But he just signed this summer,Mou won’t be willing to let him go…:(
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 24, 2012 9:43 PM GMT up reply actions
He's Anderson [united] in a different kit.
He’s exactly the same player. Exactly.
If Chelsea buy him I hope you're wrong.
Because that’d be awful.
Anderson was amazing before he came to United
Sooo that’s not a bad thing,really…
by Avinash Mohan on Jan 22, 2012 8:58 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Cech
Ivanovic—-Cahill—-Terry——Cole
Ramires——-Romeu——-Essien
Hazard———Sturridge———-Mata
That’s all I want make it happen please!
I'd be excited to see Willian come!
AVB has been very good in the transfer market so far in his short career here.
Cech, Ivan, Luiz, Terry, Cole, Ramires, Romeu, Mata, Sturridge, Torres, Willian.
Subs: Turnbull, Bosingwa, Cahill, Essien, Lampard, Meireles, Drogba.

by 



and
at the same time














