Ancelotti: "You have to sell Drogba"
by Stephen Schmidt on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 PM GMT
in Chelsea FC: Transfer Rumours & News
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When Carlo Ancelotti took over at PSG it seemed inevitable that he would be linked with several Chelsea players. He was a popular coach in the dressing room, had some success with the old guard in his first season, and inherited a ridiculously rich and ambitious club. That made questions pretty easy to come by for the French media...simply ask Carlo about his former club and you'll have no shortage of stuff to write about. To their credit, Carlo has seemed more than happy to oblige them with some relatively discussion worthy quotes thus far. Several days ago poppa Carlo gave us this tidbit about Fernando Torres. Today Carlo struck again, indulging the media by answering some questions about Chelsea legend Didier Drogba. According to Carlo:
Coaching Chelsea in the midst of a major generational change is complicated. Look at Torres and his crisis. If you decide you are going to invest in him, you have to sell Drogba. Didier is like Pippo Inzaghi at Milan. He tends to swallow up all his competitors. It is not because they are evil, they are just like that.
It's good to know that Drogs isn't inherently evil (despite what Arsenal fans may believe), but that isn't really the part of the quote that stood out for me. Ancelotti is clearly hinting that Fernando would be best served if there was less competition, although you really have to question his motives there. PSG need a striker, and they are probably on the short list of clubs that could afford Droggles' wages. Ancelotti clearly enjoyed working with the big Ivorian and from all reports the feeling was mutual.
I don't think it would come to the surprise of many here if Drogba was among the crowd that exits Stamford Bridge this summer. That doesn't mean he's not a useful piece to this season's squad, especially after allowing Nicolas Anelka to leave. While I really appreciate everything Carlo did in his time here I doubt I'm alone in wishing he'd just shut his mouth when asked about how he'd deal with the Chelsea roster in the future. Focus on PSG Carlo, it will leave Chelsea fans with a better memory of your time here.
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As I said in the comments in the earlier thread
Maybe Carlo just wants us to sell him Drogba.
But if that’s not his motivation, he needs to stop trolling us and concentrate on his new gig.
Too late! :D
First I was thinking Carlo was only trolling us but you mentioned correctly it could be interpreted as Carlo wanting Drogba – and since the talks and rumours about Drogba wanting big money at the final stage of his career won’t stop it would even make sense as PSG could theoretically afford the same wages as Shenhua. Hehe …
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I wondered that myself...
maybe The Eyebrow is up to some crafty schemes.
Sell them both!
Get Jermaine Beckford. Based on the three or four times I’ve seen him play, he’s clearly the best striker in the world. Sorry, I don’t know how to do the gray out thang.
The gray out thing is this:
@@blahblahblah@@
But only with 1 ‘@’ on each end.
And I quote:
5 Up, 5 Down - A uniquely unofficial look at the comings and goings of Chelsea FC and the EPL
Carlo can have him if he wants!
Drogba is probably not going to get a new contract, so I would prefer to get some cash now, rather than let him walk away for free. I think we have enough in terms of striking options to get by until the summer, with Torres, Sturridge, and Mt. LUKAKU.
Author and Official Fernando Torres Apologist for We Ain't Got No History!
Hehe no, they won't
But to be honest, nothing would surprise me in a world where Andy Caroll is ‘worth’ £35m
Chelsea getting a new white English player
and rid of two foreign black player. Racist club
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
I think Drogba has played his last game for us
Just a hunch
by jags 1981 on Jan 19, 2012 2:03 AM GMT via mobile reply actions
Theres truth to this
Has any striker really been able to break out with Drogba around? Its pretty much been the drog show for a while now.
by The Rumor Hound on Jan 19, 2012 2:22 AM GMT reply actions
they were able to work together
and nico was flexible enough to play as an inverted winger. Torres can’t really do either of these things, he’s more of a lone wolf striker. Even with his recent tendency to drop deep, playmake and drift wide, I’d say they couldn’t work together. Torres needs to be in the middle, and stay in the middle to score goals.
It really wouldnt be crazy too say that. No other keepers HAVE broken out.
And it would be really hard to, unless they went on loan, which is something main players can’t really do.
The implication was that this is somehow's Drogba's fault (Torres not playing at his best)
Which is just as silly as it somehow being Cech’s fault that none of our other goalkeepers broke out.
I think the implication was more that
It’s unlikely that we’ll get the best out of Torres while Drogs is still on the scene, so if you assume that Torres is more ‘the future’ than Drogba then there’s an argument to be made that moving Drogba now is the prudent thing to do.
At least, that’s how I read it.
Yes but then it would still leave the question
as what exactly Drogba does or does not that Torres can’t perform his best, when seemingly it’s all about the sheer (physical) presence (we have no proof what nasty things are Drogba is doing besides just trying to play well enough to earn a starting position)
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Maybe Torres just thrives on being the big fish in a small pond?
God knows he was just that when he played for Pool.
So that would imply
if we sold Drogba and made Sturridge, or Mt Lukaku, or … let’s say, get Andy Carroll and make him the big main targetman, Torres will wilt like the last rose of the summer nonetheless, hypothetically. I can only hope that’s far from the truth since I don’t want such a player with us. If that were the case it was not a “Drogba-problem” but a “Torres-problem”. A specific problem
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Interestingly
if that is the case, I think it’s a two way street, then. Given the other strikers that haven’t outdone Drogba in his time here, it may be that he thrives on competition, as he is the type to try to prove himself when others may be in the way, and Torres is the type that equates confidence with him to being the starting man.
Not to say that is the case, because I think another big part of it is playing style of the whole team. Chelsea suits Drogba right now, but may not with the direction they plan to go. They may not suit Torres either, but one thing is for certain- Torres and Drogba are definitely two different people.
So if you say
Drogba gets better with competition and Torres being the opposite, what does that make him? That he needs assurance in the team selection to thrive? That would be tough. Not that I want to say players don’t need any backing at all – no not all – but currently we’re just talking about natural competition for a spot, and not that Drogba uses mean tricks to influence AVB or the rest of the team. If bringing up Torres’ quality during his Pool days, you could also turn the tables and say Torres was the big fish in the pond because he deserved it, and because nobody else in the past Pool squad could threaten or rival him in that spot. Of course you could say it’s the other way round, but as I said I don’t hope it was that way.
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That scenario
I wrote is less a defense for Torres, and more just trying to throw some thoughts out there. Anything we come up with is mostly just speculative.
What is interesting to me about that scenario is that whereas one player doesnt do well with competition, the other maybe actually needs it. I haven’t paid close enough mind to Drogba’s stats, though, to say if that is supported (meaning, if he did much better when someone competing for CF was around, or not).
Also, I think there is a little difference between the “big fish small pond” idea and that of feeling you were brought in with a purpose and there was a plan in mind for you. I think we could all say that we like the latter in our own lives… just think of your average job application and description- we like knowing what our employer has in mind for us. Now, that said… I’ve no idea if that is what’s going on in the Chelsea squad, but Torres would be silly to think he would be the only CF in having elected to move to Chelsea.
Your final sentence is somewhat
in the direction into where I paced to. I’m not an avid follower of Torres’ career pre-Chelsea, so I can’t really judge how he handled competition before he came to here, but obviously in any team there is competition going on and the assessment I was referring to originally – “it’s Drogba’s fault or Drogba’s being for Torres not doing well” – itself is faulted. So is the obvious consequence of Ancelotti’s trolling attempt – “selling Drogba so that Torres can prosper”. Unless of course we assume there is something mean Drogba did and for which we have no proof. That statement even sheds false light on Torres’ behalf, seemingly making him a helpless fragile figurine needing patronizing to keep himself up. That can’t certainly be
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Before Torres came here
He was pretty much THE guy; it didn’t really matter what else happened, he was the only legitimate striker prospect on the team. At Liverpool, his competition was Dirk Kuyt (who tended to play on the wing a la Sturridge) and David N’Gog (who was awful).
In that scenario, there was probably much less pressure on him because there was little danger of him being dropped if he went through a rough patch. At the moment, however, he goes onto the field knowing that if he doesn’t score then it’s quite likely to be a couple of weeks until he gets another chance.
That doesn't back up the idea it's "Drogba's fault" at all
And finally: what you describe here for Pool isn’t so much different from what we have now, here. Didier Drogba is 33 and his form isn’t quite the same we used to expect from him (and we can’t do that). We all know whether he stays with us till the end of his career or not, he won’t carry on our attack for the next couple of seasons. Daniel Sturridge only came back to us this season and AVB doesn’t plan using him centrally. That leaves Mt Lukaku. So Torres practically has to compete against an ageing Didier Drogba not in his prime and a teenager who is just developing. Sure, things aren’t getting easier for him, and the team is used playing with Drogba, I don’t deny. But if this is the sort of pressure that makes Torres crack I’m not sure if we could rely on such type of a player for the next seasons to lead on our attack. That’s why I seriously hope this isn’t the case with him. And at last – if that was the reason behind Torres’ boost of performance that’s a pity; it’s not Drogba’s fault or a problem imposed by Drogba or Drogba’s personality especially, but Torres’ mental block. It wouldn’t change anything if it were another striker; opposed to Ancelotti saying it was only because Didier was swallowing his competitors
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Just realized AVB replied to Ancelotti's remarks
And he says practically the same:
It would be unfair for a player of Fernando’s personality and dimension to conclude that one is inflicting on the other one’s belief.
If that was the case with any player, it would be a mental weakness or a mental block, which is not the case in my opinion.
Emphasize by me
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I'm not trying to say it's Drogba's fault
The fault lies entirely with Torres.
What I’m saying is that by removing Drogba from the equation, Torres may find it easier to get over whatever has resulted in his lack of form.
To be honest, I think the ‘problem’ is that, like any striker, he needs a run of games to properly get into his stride. He didn’t have that at the beginning because he was splitting time with Drogba and the result was that neither of them played to their best. AVB then decided that it was better to pick a guy and stick with him, which resulted in Drogba getting a few games to build on and Torres was left to only make cameos (which he understandably struggled with).
Now that Drogba’s away at the ACoN, Torres has had a few games to get into a rhythm and IMO has been doing pretty well. The goals haven’t come yet, but everything else appears to be sliding into place and he may well stake a claim to keeping the starting role once Drogba returns.
OK, sorry then I got it wrong
because my initial point was it can’t be attributed to Drogba fault-wise and you replied to my comment ;) (since it’s about Drogba swallowing teammates :P). And I dunno wanna attribute a mental block to Torres; I believe he is psychologically stronger than this and that’s why I find this notion so … odd
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I happen to think it's a load of crap.
Torres is playing badly because he was playing for a poor Liverpool side for a year and then a poor Chelsea side for a year.
Also his confidence is clearly not the same (as well as he’s been playing recently if you were used to scoring 20+ goals a season and can barely manage half that now you’d be low on confidence).
The other thing is our most attacking midfielder is Frank Lampard and although I love him he’s not the player to have behind Torres. He clearly needs more service from the midfield and wings. I by product of our 4-3-3 is that Ashley cole gets stranded when Mata plays centrally or on the right (which is very often) and Torres tends to drop deep when Mata is on the left or go wide when Mata is playing centrally. If we had a permanent left winger or 3 attacking midfielders behind him switching positions he wouldn’t feel the need to drop deep or go wide and would be able to bother defenders and score goals.
But yeah I don’t think Torres has been playing poorly because of Drogba or the other way around. I think the whole team has been playing poorly.
Maybe its just his presence
Drogba seems like the type to be a big personality in the dressing room, sometimes that can be a factor in the way his competition plays. Nando just looks over all better now that he is gone, playing and body language.
by The Rumor Hound on Jan 19, 2012 8:39 PM GMT up reply actions
If it was only the sheer presense alone
and not that Chelsea teammates react differently to Drogba’s behaviour on the pitch than Torres’ – then it would be more Torres having a mental block then it was Drogba’s fault for being there
Tor ilisar'thera'nal!
Well yes...
But removing Drogba from the equation would, at least, resolve the symptoms of this problem.
I think he leading them on. Y'know, the old say-something-controversial-with-a-wink-at-the-end.
The media didn’t include the wink. The truth is no fun after all.
He might just be trying to buy Drogba...
…but has anyone noticed that Torres’ best performances have started to come now, when Drogba is away at the ACON?
No way!
You mean he contributes much more when he’s out there on the pitch rather than just warming the bench?!
I read this comment in a very different way
I think Carlo is saying that because of Drogbas force of personality and position as a dressing room leader, he actively applies psychological pressure to competing strikers to break their confidence. He may also be ensuring that his friends on the team aren’t giving Torres the service he needs. And he could be ostracised socially also. All of which could destroy Nandos confidence and harm his job satisfaction. You may say Drogs isn’t like that. But imagine you have a really sweet job where your the go too guy that everyone loves. Then your boss hires a new guy that’s possibly even better and younger than you to do the same job. Knowing there’s only enough work for one of you will you a) help him settle in and quietly leave the company or do odd jobs. Or b) use everything at your disposal to keep him off balance and keep your job and position secure???
As Carlo says, this doesn’t make him evil, just human.
And to review. 2 of the top strikers in the world have tanked utterly when they arrived at Chelsea. Coincidence???
by joady on Jan 19, 2012 7:57 AM GMT via iPhone app reply actions
I know it's not meant this way
but saying Drogba uses everything at his disposal to keep his rivals off balance and keep his job and secures his positions sounds like he uses unfair methods to save his ass. Of course I don’t know Drogba and have no insight into the Chelsea dressing room but it’s difficult to imagine. Same with those player power talks. Sure, Drogba and some Chelsea players may be influential because of their past contributions, and because everyone else look up to them. But I have a hard time imagining they are using their influence to destroy our manager, the staff, or the club, or whatever when all they do openly is go to the press and say some things that aren’t beneficial. But then, many players say unflattering things to the press; Fernando Torres said some odd things too he should better have kept for himself.
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I think because their our sporting hero's we attribute a higher moral standard to these men
They are just like any of us. They are fairly careful with what they say to the press but of course they are just humans. And there is no interest like self interest. Drogba wasn’t raised as a Chelsea fan back in Abidjan, He was hired to work for them several years ago. In fact until recently he used to talk about wanting to leave very regularly. I’m sure he does love Chelsea but its not like we Love Chelsea. He really likes working there and the people he works with and he likes the adoration of the fans. And someone has been brought in to jeopardise all of this. Its natural for him to want to keep his place and to fight for that using whatever he can to do so. He may love the club, but his own interests come well ahead of the clubs. We mustn’t let of fandom get in the way of understanding players true motivations.
Remember John ‘Mr Chelsea’ Terry, when Manchester city came calling? He didn’t deny anything for weeks until his love for Chelsea (€150,000 per week worth of it) won out. Self interest is true interest.
Maybe it's because I've gone through hilarious happenings this day
but I don’t know exactly how what you’ve written here backs up your former point. Sure, it’s not really about love on the players’ side, I get that. They want the best for themselves, and as long as what they perceive “the best for them” matches “the best interests” or the club it’s all OK. Once they fall out – the player moves on. A player may say unprofessional things to the press, or say things that aren’t advantageous to them, for example telling the press how much you want to leave the club when there is no clear-cut intention of leaving (Drogba numerous times, Lampard 2008, and so on), or that you just chose the club you’re playing for because it was your only choice (Torres). And I might disagree with you here but I think if Drogba’s intention was to play as many games as possible and convince AVB he deserved to start (we fans might disagree with AVB’s choice, but since AVB awarded Drogba so many starts at least AVB saw something in him) then it is within the interests of the club as well. It is truly natural for one spot in the team there is competition between 2 or 3 players, and in this case it was Drogba and Torres. If Drogba was out there to help Torres get into that spot so him not doing so would be his own failure, then there is something terribly wrong. Torres should be able to do his own best to convince AVB he is worth starting, that’s what competition is about. So if it were as you’ve written in your first post, that he sort of “needs” Drogba’s help settling in I’d be worried.
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Didier Drogba chase stepped up by Shanghai Shenhua
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 19, 2012 2:42 PM GMT reply actions
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16628786.stm
by el chelsea fuerte on Jan 19, 2012 2:43 PM GMT up reply actions
Their source is the "Chinese equivalent of Twitter"?
LMAO.
Also, not once does the spokesman mention Drogba by name…so…yeah.
I read somewhere
that Shenhua was optimistic the deal could be wrapped up before Chinese New Year (it’ll come difficult to wrap up any major business in China during the New Year celebrations since nobody will be there :D) so we shall hear anything soon if that were to happen. It’s not too long until that
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